All Things Ayton

[Drewsprocket]

It is kind of like how VT was the first one to hate on Ryan McDonough and everyone thought he was crazy until he was proven right.

Ummm.....

You're right, INF. You're usually the early hater on most things.

I tend to be a homer and can’t help it. I wanted to like McD so bad but hated how we chased Dragic away.

[Superbone]

It is kind of like how VT was the first one to hate on Ryan McDonough and everyone thought he was crazy until he was proven right.

Ummm.....

You're right, INF. You're usually the early hater on most things.

I tend to be a homer and can’t help it. I wanted to like McD so bad but hated how we chased Dragic away.

Yeah, that was the worst. He backed the wrong horse.

[INFORMER]

You add Brogdon, who also shot 44% from 3 and I’m intrigued. T

Brogdon is perfect for the team, but I would feel like the front office would be burying their head in the sand a bit. Brogdon can't stay healthy. He was terrible against Miami, and the first thing you hear toward the end is that he was playing through a serious injury. Sound familiar? That's been the soundtrack of every Suns exit the last three years. Why continue to bring guys in that are never healthy? We already have a Big 3 in which each player misses about 20 games a year.

I love the talent of a Brogdon/Time Lord/Pritchard/#35 pick package, but it seems grossly negligent to ignore the injury concern.

[INFORMER]

Got to be kidding me. Unless Randle is a pill to play with, I’d do it. He is a bull in a china shop that we needed.

I don't believe NY offered that.

[JeremyG]

And Vogel wanted both Paul and Ayton. They’re not going to get rid of both and start things off on a bad note with their new coach.

That's silly. Vogel wanted them because they were still on the roster. He isn't going to start his coaching stint here saying he doesn't want guys that are already on the roster.

Of course not. But he made a big deal out of it and said the roster (while naming both of them) was really important in considering this particular job.

[Superbone]

You add Brogdon, who also shot 44% from 3 and I’m intrigued. T

Brogdon is perfect for the team, but I would feel like the front office would be burying their head in the sand a bit. Brogdon can't stay healthy. He was terrible against Miami, and the first thing you hear toward the end is that he was playing through a serious injury. Sound familiar? That's been the soundtrack of every Suns exit the last three years. Why continue to bring guys in that are never healthy? We already have a Big 3 in which each player misses about 20 games a year.

I love the talent of a Brogdon/Time Lord/Pritchard/#35 pick package, but it seems grossly negligent to ignore the injury concern.

I agree that we can't have too many eggs in the injury-prone basket. We need some evergreens in there too.

[Superbone]

And Vogel wanted both Paul and Ayton. They’re not going to get rid of both and start things off on a bad note with their new coach.

That's silly. Vogel wanted them because they were still on the roster. He isn't going to start his coaching stint here saying he doesn't want guys that are already on the roster.

Of course not. But he made a big deal out of it and said the roster (while naming both of them) was really important in considering this particular job.

I ain't going to lie. I'm curious to see what Vogel can do with Ayton. Not sure if we're going to get the opportunity to see though.

[ShelC]

I've seen enough bobbled/dropped passes and him getting stuffed around the rim by defenders to believe Vogel isn't changing much there. Can't change a soft big who plays small. Blame Monty for whatever but we've been asking DA to dunk the ball for 5 years. This goes beyond their falling out.

[Superbone]

I've seen enough bobbled/dropped passes and him getting stuffed around the rim by defenders to believe Vogel isn't changing much there. Can't change a soft big who plays small. Blame Monty for whatever but we've been asking DA to dunk the ball for 5 years. This goes beyond their falling out.

Welp, all I can say is we'll have more data with Vogel. If you are correct, Ayton's value will only get worse from here, not better.

[BKinSJC]

I've seen enough bobbled/dropped passes and him getting stuffed around the rim by defenders to believe Vogel isn't changing much there. Can't change a soft big who plays small. Blame Monty for whatever but we've been asking DA to dunk the ball for 5 years. This goes beyond their falling out.

Welp, all I can say is we'll have more data with Vogel. If you are correct, Ayton's value will only get worse from here, not better.

Have to disagree. In a couple of years, he'll be a shitty expiring contract instead of a shitty contract with three years left. Progress!

[Wally_West]

Will James Jones finally get John Collins?

Jones hates Collins.

Does he? We apparently almost traded for him at the deadline last year before the KD deal got done. We were rumored to be interested in using Paul’s contract to get him before Beal trade. Just seems like we keep being linked to him. I want nothing to do with Collins so I hope you’re right.

Would you take Collins if we got Okongwu too?

God no. Lol I don’t nothing to with Collins. Okongwu not enough for me.

[INFORMER]

I am in the same camp when it comes to Collins; he doesn't do anything for us. It would just be wasted salary.

I put some stock in the "Vogel will rehab Ayton" notion before the Beal trade, but with three elite scorers on board, the Ayton project is DOA. He isn't going to get the touches here to keep him engaged, which is what we've been hearing he needs. I don't see him being motivated to be a rebounding/defensive machine when he isn't getting the ball on offense.

[SunsSince92]

I am in the same camp when it comes to Collins; he doesn't do anything for us. It would just be wasted salary.

I put some stock in the "Vogel will rehab Ayton" notion before the Beal trade, but with three elite scorers on board, the Ayton project is DOA. He isn't going to get the touches here to keep him engaged, which is what we've been hearing he needs. I don't see him being motivated to be a rebounding/defensive machine when he isn't getting the ball on offense.

I agree, I just don't see him being willing to embrace the defensive machine role as it's not really his game. We ultimately need someone who is happy doing the dirty work whilst also able to finish at the rim. DA just isn't that guy.

To be honest I could see him going to a team like Washington or Orlando, averaging 16 and 10 for the rest of his career and being quite happy with that.

[Split T]

It’s too bad…he could be pretty great if he bought into being 2021 playoffs Ayton.

I do still think we need to use him for depth though. Even projecting him to have a bounce back year, I’d rather trade him for multiple pieces.

If he’s a $20 bill, give me two $10’s or a $10 and 2 $5’s

[JeremyG]

Gambo is now finally saying everything I've been saying over the last month:

* "More likely than not" and "better than good chance" that they keep Ayton
* "Suns like Ayton"
* Would have to be "blown away" by an offer (nothing is happening right now as far as being close to a trade)
* Vogel wants to see what he can get out of Ayton
* Suns want to give Vogel that opportunity

[Flagrant Fowl]

More like they don’t have a choice because the Suns have to pay for a team to take on his bloated salary.

[JeremyG]

I don't think you realize how much James Jones likes Deandre. And now two ESPN insiders (was it Windhorst and Lowe?) said they've heard Ishbia likes DA and his game. And now Vogel wants him.

[SunsSince92]

Gambo is now finally saying everything I've been saying over the last month:

* "More likely than not" and "better than good chance" that they keep Ayton
* "Suns like Ayton"
* Would have to be "blown away" by an offer (nothing is happening right now as far as being close to a trade)
* Vogel wants to see what he can get out of Ayton
* Suns want to give Vogel that opportunity

I'm guessing by 'Suns' they mean James Jones as Ishbia has only really seen an under performing Ayton and Vogel's only reference point is the 2021 playoff series against his Lakers, when we all agree Ayton played well. Jones has a vested interest in standing by Ayton as he was the one who selected him with the 1st pick. To quit on him would be admitting that he got it wrong.

I don't think they'd need to be blown away, they just don't want to give him up for a bunch of mediocre role players which is fair.

[JeremyG]

Gambo is now finally saying everything I've been saying over the last month:

* "More likely than not" and "better than good chance" that they keep Ayton
* "Suns like Ayton"
* Would have to be "blown away" by an offer (nothing is happening right now as far as being close to a trade)
* Vogel wants to see what he can get out of Ayton
* Suns want to give Vogel that opportunity

I'm guessing by 'Suns' they mean James Jones as Ishbia has only really seen an under performing Ayton and Vogel's only reference point is the 2021 playoff series against his Lakers, when we all agree Ayton played well. Jones has a vested interest in standing by Ayton as he was the one who selected him with the 1st pick. To quit on him would be admitting that he got it wrong.

I don't think they'd need to be blown away, they just don't want to give him up for a bunch of mediocre role players which is fair.

He was part of the front office, but it was McDonough making the pick.

[Flagrant Fowl]

I don't think you realize how much James Jones likes Deandre. And now two ESPN insiders (was it Windhorst and Lowe?) said they've heard Ishbia likes DA and his game. And now Vogel wants him.

I don’t think you realize that’s exactly what they should say if they want to buoy his plummeting value.