All Things Ayton

[JeremyG]

With that said, I think it's a stretch to suggest the Suns are keen to hold onto him when they've spent months trying to shop him over the past year.

People keep claiming that, but there has been no proof of that anywhere.

[JeremyG]

This is fun. I hope this never ends.

Fun fact: this is now the 7th-longest thread in this forum.

[virtual9mm]

I'm just happy that there won't be any kind of fire sale.

[Split T]

I have to believe Gambo is just being fed a smokescreen to raise the price. That or he’s knowingly doing us a solid and Ishbia told him he’d get great info if he helped drive up the price. I just can’t understand not trading Ayton when our depth is what it is

So you're saying that all of Frank's friends (former players, former assistant coaches, etc.) that Gambo talked to are in on the conspiracy, too? Or did Ishbia bribe them also? Plus Ishbia bribed Vogel to say glowing things about Ayton publicly as well?

But I guess I'm the one in denial of reality.

I don’t doubt that Frank likes him and thinks he can get something out of him. I do doubt the idea that we aren’t looking to move him. Even Gambo says we’ve been looking(or listening). What I mostly doubt is the idea that we are very unlikely to move him. It feels like something you want to get out if you want the offers to get better.

I also just don’t personally understand keeping him. We need depth badly and right now our only avenue is vet min deals. Ayton has also had 2 pretty poor finishes to the season the last two years(really wasn’t good at all last year) and reports are the players are done with him.
I can’t understand why you wouldn’t want to trade him so that was my best guess.

I can believe the offers aren’t great and Vogel likes him, lessening the absolute necessity to move him, but I don’t believe for 1 second that they aren’t looking and I think they’d jump on the right offer. Just haven’t got it…hence all the info coming out that they want him and love him. Gotta convince other teams we are willing to keep him. They’ve convinced you, hopefully they’ve convinced other teams too.

[Superbone]

I just don't think his skillset, finesse offense, is what this current team needs. Our offensive fire power is fierce. We need a defensive center that protects the rim and is an aggressive rebounder. A Looney type. And we need depth which trading him may provide. We'll see what happens.

[TOO]

This is fun. I hope this never ends.

Fun fact: this is now the 7th-longest thread in this forum.

And I'm sure it'll go on until he retires, even after he's traded.

[JeremyG]

I have to believe Gambo is just being fed a smokescreen to raise the price. That or he’s knowingly doing us a solid and Ishbia told him he’d get great info if he helped drive up the price. I just can’t understand not trading Ayton when our depth is what it is

So you're saying that all of Frank's friends (former players, former assistant coaches, etc.) that Gambo talked to are in on the conspiracy, too? Or did Ishbia bribe them also? Plus Ishbia bribed Vogel to say glowing things about Ayton publicly as well?

But I guess I'm the one in denial of reality.

I don’t doubt that Frank likes him and thinks he can get something out of him. I do doubt the idea that we aren’t looking to move him. Even Gambo says we’ve been looking(or listening). What I mostly doubt is the idea that we are very unlikely to move him. It feels like something you want to get out if you want the offers to get better.

I also just don’t personally understand keeping him. We need depth badly and right now our only avenue is vet min deals. Ayton has also had 2 pretty poor finishes to the season the last two years(really wasn’t good at all last year) and reports are the players are done with him.
I can’t understand why you wouldn’t want to trade him so that was my best guess.

See I guess that's where we differ. Everthing Gambo is saying aligns perfectly with my view of reality, so I have no problem taking it at face value.

From mid-November to March 1, he averaged:
20 ppg
11 rpg
60% FG
in just 31 mpg

Can you show me any sourced report from an actual reporter that says the players are done with him?

I can believe the offers aren’t great and Vogel likes him, lessening the absolute necessity to move him, but I don’t believe for 1 second that they aren’t looking and I think they’d jump on the right offer. Just haven’t got it…hence all the info coming out that they want him and love him.

Gambo said the Mavericks have offered Tim Hardaway, Jr., Reggie Bullock, and Javale McGee and that the Suns refuse to make a trade of that caliber. Would you do that trade?

Gotta convince other teams we are willing to keep him. They’ve convinced you, hopefully they’ve convinced other teams too.

No, I was convinced they are willing to keep him when you asked me back in May before they hired Vogel.

[JeremyG]

This is fun. I hope this never ends.

Fun fact: this is now the 7th-longest thread in this forum.

And I'm sure it'll go on until he retires, even after he's traded.

Well since he's going to retire as a Sun, I'm sure it will.

[Split T]

I would not trade him for THJ, Bullock and Javale. Would need Green and/or Lively. I don’t think Dallas is interested anymore with the Lively pick and Holmes acquisition though.

I would trade him for the rumored WCJ, Isaac, Bol offer. Hard to know how accurate these reports are on specific offers.

As for November to March, ya he put up numbers but he was not good once KD was with the team.

I’d love your response to these:



I’d add defensive fg% allowed inside 6 feet

Biyombo opponents shot 14.3% lower than expected
Landale was 7.6 % lower than expected
Ayton was 2.7% lower than expected.

Why were Biyombo and Landale so much better?

Why was our offense and defense better with Ayton off the court?

You always bring up his 18/10, but we were better last year when he didn’t play.

[TOO]

His response will blame his teammates, scheme, coaching, literally anything but Ayton.

[Vladimir_Taltos]

I would not trade him for THJ, Bullock and Javale. Would need Green and/or Lively. I don’t think Dallas is interested anymore with the Lively pick and Holmes acquisition though.

I would trade him for the rumored WCJ, Isaac, Bol offer. Hard to know how accurate these reports are on specific offers.

As for November to March, ya he put up numbers but he was not good once KD was with the team.

I’d love your response to these:



I’d add defensive fg% allowed inside 6 feet

Biyombo opponents shot 14.3% lower than expected
Landale was 7.6 % lower than expected
Ayton was 2.7% lower than expected.

Why were Biyombo and Landale so much better?

Why was our offense and defense better with Ayton off the court?

You always bring up his 18/10, but we were better last year when he didn’t play.

In nominay DeAndre, In nominay Ayton...all hail spaghetti! Play ball!
Jeremy, High Priest of The DeAndre Church of the Spaghetti Center (TDACSC)

[Kryptonic]

Preparing for some bullshit hyperbole….

[Mori Chu]

I'm going to enjoy when Gambo tweets in a week or two that the Suns are open to trading DA again, followed by Jeremy viciously denouncing Gambo as a liar and charlatan.

[JeremyG]

I would not trade him for THJ, Bullock and Javale. Would need Green and/or Lively. I don’t think Dallas is interested anymore with the Lively pick and Holmes acquisition though.

I would trade him for the rumored WCJ, Isaac, Bol offer. Hard to know how accurate these reports are on specific offers.

As for November to March, ya he put up numbers but he was not good once KD was with the team.

I’d love your response to these:



I’d add defensive fg% allowed inside 6 feet

Biyombo opponents shot 14.3% lower than expected
Landale was 7.6 % lower than expected
Ayton was 2.7% lower than expected.

Why were Biyombo and Landale so much better?

Why was our offense and defense better with Ayton off the court?

You always bring up his 18/10, but we were better last year when he didn’t play.

You can always cherry pick stats (especially the team/lineup ones). I don't believe we were better without him. Just look at game 6.

His defense was not as good this season. I believe under Vogel, that will change dramatically. Looking at his previous seasons, there is really no reason to believe it won't.

I don't think you even believe that those stats are as meaningful as you're making them out to be. Would you rather start either Biyombo or Landale over Ayton next season, if those were your only choices? How about in a Game 6 elimination game?

[JeremyG]

I'm going to enjoy when Gambo tweets in a week or two that the Suns are open to trading DA again, followed by Jeremy viciously denouncing Gambo as a liar and charlatan.

He never said they aren't "open" to trading him. He said it's like his house--he can tell you that he isn't planning to sell his house, but if someone offers him three times the value of it, he'll sell it immediately.

[Split T]

I would not trade him for THJ, Bullock and Javale. Would need Green and/or Lively. I don’t think Dallas is interested anymore with the Lively pick and Holmes acquisition though.

I would trade him for the rumored WCJ, Isaac, Bol offer. Hard to know how accurate these reports are on specific offers.

As for November to March, ya he put up numbers but he was not good once KD was with the team.

I’d love your response to these:



I’d add defensive fg% allowed inside 6 feet

Biyombo opponents shot 14.3% lower than expected
Landale was 7.6 % lower than expected
Ayton was 2.7% lower than expected.

Why were Biyombo and Landale so much better?

Why was our offense and defense better with Ayton off the court?

You always bring up his 18/10, but we were better last year when he didn’t play.

You can always cherry pick stats (especially the team/lineup ones). I don't believe we were better without him. Just look at game 6.

His defense was not as good this seaosn. I believe under Vogel, that will change dramatically. Looking at his previous seasons, there is really no reason to believe it won't.

I don't think you even believe that those stats are as meaningful as you're making them out to be. Would you rather start either Biyombo or Landale over Ayton next season, if those were your only choices? How about in a Game 6 elimination game?

I guess it’s easy to like him if you just ignore the bad stuff. And I do think those stats are meaningful. I thought he looked worse all year on defense and the stats back it up.

And no I don’t want to start Landale or Biyombo over him, he’s a better on offense, but he was a worse defender.

[JeremyG]

I would not trade him for THJ, Bullock and Javale. Would need Green and/or Lively. I don’t think Dallas is interested anymore with the Lively pick and Holmes acquisition though.

I would trade him for the rumored WCJ, Isaac, Bol offer. Hard to know how accurate these reports are on specific offers.

As for November to March, ya he put up numbers but he was not good once KD was with the team.

I’d love your response to these:



I’d add defensive fg% allowed inside 6 feet

Biyombo opponents shot 14.3% lower than expected
Landale was 7.6 % lower than expected
Ayton was 2.7% lower than expected.

Why were Biyombo and Landale so much better?

Why was our offense and defense better with Ayton off the court?

You always bring up his 18/10, but we were better last year when he didn’t play.

You can always cherry pick stats (especially the team/lineup ones). I don't believe we were better without him. Just look at game 6.

His defense was not as good this seaosn. I believe under Vogel, that will change dramatically. Looking at his previous seasons, there is really no reason to believe it won't.

I don't think you even believe that those stats are as meaningful as you're making them out to be. Would you rather start either Biyombo or Landale over Ayton next season, if those were your only choices? How about in a Game 6 elimination game?

I guess it’s easy to like him if you just ignore the bad stuff. And I do think those stats are meaningful. I thought he looked worse all year on defense and the stats back it up.

And no I don’t want to start Landale or Biyombo over him, he’s a better on offense, but he was a worse defender.

You said "our offense and defense" was better without him.

Also, if the point is trying to figure out whether to keep him for next season, you can't just go off of his defense from last season. You have to make a projection of what you expect him to do defensively next season.

[Split T]

It was better without him, that’s just a fact. But I do think he’s individually better than Jock or Biz on offense.

And it’s impossible to predict what he’ll do next season. He’s proven to be incredibly unreliable and inconsistent. It’s the biggest reason most of us want him gone. That plus we need depth. If you guaranteed me he’d play like 2021 playoffs I’d be ok keeping him. I just have zero faith he’ll do that.

[Vladimir_Taltos]

I would not trade him for THJ, Bullock and Javale. Would need Green and/or Lively. I don’t think Dallas is interested anymore with the Lively pick and Holmes acquisition though.

I would trade him for the rumored WCJ, Isaac, Bol offer. Hard to know how accurate these reports are on specific offers.

As for November to March, ya he put up numbers but he was not good once KD was with the team.

I’d love your response to these:



I’d add defensive fg% allowed inside 6 feet

Biyombo opponents shot 14.3% lower than expected
Landale was 7.6 % lower than expected
Ayton was 2.7% lower than expected.

Why were Biyombo and Landale so much better?

Why was our offense and defense better with Ayton off the court?

You always bring up his 18/10, but we were better last year when he didn’t play.

You can always cherry pick stats (especially the team/lineup ones). I don't believe we were better without him. Just look at game 6.

His defense was not as good this seaosn. I believe under Vogel, that will change dramatically. Looking at his previous seasons, there is really no reason to believe it won't.

I don't think you even believe that those stats are as meaningful as you're making them out to be. Would you rather start either Biyombo or Landale over Ayton next season, if those were your only choices? How about in a Game 6 elimination game?

I guess it’s easy to like him if you just ignore the bad stuff. And I do think those stats are meaningful. I thought he looked worse all year on defense and the stats back it up.

And no I don’t want to start Landale or Biyombo over him, he’s a better on offense, but he was a worse defender.

Split, he's his High Priest...he has to blindly like him...
In nominay DeAndre, In nominay Ayton...all hail spaghetti! Play ball!
Jeremy, High Priest of The DeAndre Church of the Spaghetti Center (TDACSC)

[SunsRIt]

I don’t know how you guys do it, but you’ve been arguing the same stupid shit for 82 pages. Seriously? You really don’t have anything better to do?