All Things Ayton

[TOO]

This. 1000x.

One of the worst takes I've seen. Vogel actually has a great defensive system that he will be implementing...with Ayton in a starring role (in that defensive system). And Sam acts like previous seasons of data on Ayton's defense are completely irrelevant. "If this is how he played last season, then it definitely has to be how he will play next season." Stupid and illogical.

Facts aren't takes.

[TOO]

Being saddled with Ayton was the last thing I wanted for this off season. Woof.

It was the first thing I wanted for this off season.

What is it about Ayton that you feel makes him invaluable to this Sun's team and worth taking repeated flak for?

I could understand feeling that way about Bridges but Ayton is a harder reach for me.

It's so weird, dude is the 4th best player on the team, making 30m, at a position that unless you have a Historically great player isn't that important. Sheer nonsense.

[JeremyG]

Being saddled with Ayton was the last thing I wanted for this off season. Woof.

It was the first thing I wanted for this off season.

What is it about Ayton that you feel makes him invaluable to this Sun's team and worth taking repeated flak for?

I could understand feeling that way about Bridges but Ayton is a harder reach for me.

It's so weird, dude is the 4th best player on the team, making 30m, at a position that unless you have a Historically great player isn't that important. Sheer nonsense.

The center position is extremely important in Vogel's system.

[JeremyG]

Being saddled with Ayton was the last thing I wanted for this off season. Woof.

It was the first thing I wanted for this off season.

What is it about Ayton that you feel makes him invaluable to this Sun's team and worth taking repeated flak for?

I could understand feeling that way about Bridges but Ayton is a harder reach for me.

I don't believe we can win a championship this season without Ayton. It would be like the Nets' big 3. Especially with injury concerns. You need that 4th piece.

[JeremyG]

This is exactly how I've viewed it. I think what Haynes means is they don't even need Ayton to be great--just an average Ayton with those big 3 will put you over the top.

(Not saying I expect him to not be great.)

[TOO]

Being saddled with Ayton was the last thing I wanted for this off season. Woof.

It was the first thing I wanted for this off season.

What is it about Ayton that you feel makes him invaluable to this Sun's team and worth taking repeated flak for?

I could understand feeling that way about Bridges but Ayton is a harder reach for me.

It's so weird, dude is the 4th best player on the team, making 30m, at a position that unless you have a Historically great player isn't that important. Sheer nonsense.

The center position is extremely important in Vogel's system.

You keep saying this, and its only important defensively because he plays a drop. Ayton was awful and never stays engaged. He doesn't block shots, doesn't box out, doesn't play big. Relying on him for that at his price tag is terrible mismanagement. He's not gonna just magically change who he's been the last 5 years because the coach is different.

[Democritus]

The sad reality is that Ayton himself doesn't care about basketball and winning games as much as we do here. His attitude clearly shows that. Countless clips of complacent behaviour, sleep walking through games etc.His ultimate goal was to get that that big moneybag. He achieved his goal. End of the story.
But the thing that makes me feel entirely hopeless about Ayton is that he thinks that he gives everything on court and is 100 percent commited to the game. He is delusional about his attitude. You can't fight or fix that.

[JeremyG]

It was the first thing I wanted for this off season.

What is it about Ayton that you feel makes him invaluable to this Sun's team and worth taking repeated flak for?

I could understand feeling that way about Bridges but Ayton is a harder reach for me.

It's so weird, dude is the 4th best player on the team, making 30m, at a position that unless you have a Historically great player isn't that important. Sheer nonsense.

The center position is extremely important in Vogel's system.

You keep saying this, and its only important defensively because he plays a drop. Ayton was awful and never stays engaged. He doesn't block shots, doesn't box out, doesn't play big. Relying on him for that at his price tag is terrible mismanagement. He's not gonna just magically change who he's been the last 5 years because the coach is different.

Vogel saw him destroy his team on both ends of the floor during a playoff series--I'm sure that has to be a powerful memory for him. He helped shut down LeBron even. He didn't block shots during that series, either (0.7 per game). He doesn't have to be a shotblocker in order to be a rim deterrent or alter shots.

(Interestingly, I thought Vogel was exaggerating when he said Ayton shot 80% in that series. But it turns out he actually did shoot 79.6% FG )

[SunsSince92]

Being saddled with Ayton was the last thing I wanted for this off season. Woof.

It was the first thing I wanted for this off season.

What is it about Ayton that you feel makes him invaluable to this Sun's team and worth taking repeated flak for?

I could understand feeling that way about Bridges but Ayton is a harder reach for me.

It's so weird, dude is the 4th best player on the team, making 30m, at a position that unless you have a Historically great player isn't that important. Sheer nonsense.

The center position is extremely important in Vogel's system.

Absolutely, but why does said center need to be Ayton? I guess that's the point I'm driving at. What is it about him in particular that makes you believe he is the answer over other centers that may be available at a lower price?

[JeremyG]

It was the first thing I wanted for this off season.

What is it about Ayton that you feel makes him invaluable to this Sun's team and worth taking repeated flak for?

I could understand feeling that way about Bridges but Ayton is a harder reach for me.

It's so weird, dude is the 4th best player on the team, making 30m, at a position that unless you have a Historically great player isn't that important. Sheer nonsense.

The center position is extremely important in Vogel's system.

Absolutely, but why does said center need to be Ayton? I guess that's the point I'm driving at. What is it about him in particular that makes you believe he is the answer over other centers that may be available at a lower price?

Available in trades? You mean like Carter or Capela? I think Ayton is clearly better than them.

[Vladimir_Taltos]

This. 1000x.

One of the worst takes I've seen. Vogel actually has a great defensive system that he will be implementing...with Ayton in a starring role (in that defensive system). And Sam acts like previous seasons of data on Ayton's defense are completely irrelevant. "If this is how he played last season, then it definitely has to be how he will play next season." Stupid and illogical.

One of the worst takes...? What, speaking facts? DA is 7', weighs 250...but has a heart that weighs 2 oz, on a good day. No zip, no passion, no spirit, no huevos...he 'has no marbles '...to quote Major League. He ranked 78th in FTAs last year! How? Why? At that size and supposed skill? He got his money and now, he doesn't care!!! It was always the $ for him, never the outcome!!! 78th!!!

[Split T]

What is it about Ayton that you feel makes him invaluable to this Sun's team and worth taking repeated flak for?

I could understand feeling that way about Bridges but Ayton is a harder reach for me.

It's so weird, dude is the 4th best player on the team, making 30m, at a position that unless you have a Historically great player isn't that important. Sheer nonsense.

The center position is extremely important in Vogel's system.

You keep saying this, and its only important defensively because he plays a drop. Ayton was awful and never stays engaged. He doesn't block shots, doesn't box out, doesn't play big. Relying on him for that at his price tag is terrible mismanagement. He's not gonna just magically change who he's been the last 5 years because the coach is different.

Vogel saw him destroy his team on both ends of the floor during a playoff series--I'm sure that has to be a powerful memory for him. He helped shut down LeBron even. He didn't block shots during that series, either (0.7 per game). He doesn't have to be a shotblocker in order to be a rim deterrent or alter shots.

(Interestingly, I thought Vogel was exaggerating when he said Ayton shot 80% in that series. But it turns out he actually did shoot 79.6% FG )

Well I think a lot of us would feel better if we knew he’d just be the 2021 playoff Ayton. That’s been the problem the whole time with Ayton. He’s capable, he’s just not consistently motivated to be that guy.

Do we even know if he’s willing? Or is he gonna be upset that he’s getting ignored in the offense? Because he’s going to get ignored at times. It just doesn’t make sense to give him post ups when we have Book, Beal, and KD out there.

I’m cautiously(extremely cautious) optimistic that he’ll be more invested this year now that Monty is gone, but I’m still very worried. If he’s the same player as last year we are in trouble.

Anyways, I’m ready to move on. Focus on who we can get in free agency and with our TPE.

One thing to also remember(not that I think it’s likely), but we can sign and trade our own players for other established players. So we could sign Bazley to a deal starting at say 7 million and trade him to a team for up to 7.8 million in salary.

[SunsSince92]

What is it about Ayton that you feel makes him invaluable to this Sun's team and worth taking repeated flak for?

I could understand feeling that way about Bridges but Ayton is a harder reach for me.

It's so weird, dude is the 4th best player on the team, making 30m, at a position that unless you have a Historically great player isn't that important. Sheer nonsense.

The center position is extremely important in Vogel's system.

Absolutely, but why does said center need to be Ayton? I guess that's the point I'm driving at. What is it about him in particular that makes you believe he is the answer over other centers that may be available at a lower price?

Available in trades? You mean like Carter or Capela? I think Ayton is clearly better than them.

Nicely swerved

[Shabazz]

Depressing.

[JeremyG]

I’m cautiously(extremely cautious) optimistic that he’ll be more invested this year now that Monty is gone, but I’m still very worried. If he’s the same player as last year we are in trouble.

You don't think we would have had a chance to beat Denver if we had Beal instead of an injured Chris Paul?

[TOO]

[Shabazz]

I really hope Jones is just playing the media to get what he wants in trade talks.

No, Jeremy, he doesn’t “love” Ayton. He didn’t want to give him the max for two summers. He tried trading him numerous times including this summer. He did love Monty, though. Those two talked daily and I’m sure they spent a fair amount of time commiserating on their frustrating, soft 7-1 center. Something tells me the nature of the conversation wasn’t Monty complaining and JJ disagreeing and telling Monty how he was using DA wrong. Jones has also watched the last 6 years and saw what most of us have seen.

He’s just stuck with him because he’s a negative asset. That’s the reality. We all are.

[Shabazz]

I’m cautiously(extremely cautious) optimistic that he’ll be more invested this year now that Monty is gone, but I’m still very worried. If he’s the same player as last year we are in trouble.

You don't think we would have had a chance to beat Denver if we had Beal instead of an injured Chris Paul?

Was Ayton sitting out game 6 with his boo-boo in this hypothetical?

[Kryptonic]

I’m cautiously(extremely cautious) optimistic that he’ll be more invested this year now that Monty is gone, but I’m still very worried. If he’s the same player as last year we are in trouble.

You don't think we would have had a chance to beat Denver if we had Beal instead of an injured Chris Paul?

Was Ayton sitting out game 6 with his boo-boo in this hypothetical?

Had Monty kissed his boo-boo he would have played.

Missing game 6 to me and letting down his teammates…. Who the hell wants to play with a guy like that?

[Split T]

I’m cautiously(extremely cautious) optimistic that he’ll be more invested this year now that Monty is gone, but I’m still very worried. If he’s the same player as last year we are in trouble.

You don't think we would have had a chance to beat Denver if we had Beal instead of an injured Chris Paul?

I mean if Booker shoots 75% from the field again, sure. Hard to rely on that though