TRADE: Ayton/Camara for Nurkic/Allen/Little/Johnson

[carey]

I don't think I like this move. Not because I'm attached to Ayton, but because the return was so low. I'm surprised that Jones was that eager to move him. This tells me that Booker & Jones were both over trying to light a fire under the young buck. They saw what he was capable of during that finals run and then he gave them 2 seasons of deteriorating play. I think Booker views this as his championship window and he just isn't about coddling right now.

As far as the players coming back in the trade: Nurkic - An average starting C to me. There's likely 15 starting Cs better than he is but likely 15 worse too. Again, trading a former #1 overall pick for a package headlined by him is very underwhelming. His defense has fallen off in the last few seasons from what I can tell, though I admit I haven't stayed up to watch Blazers basketball since Brandon Roy played there. I think he'll at least dunk the ball when he has an open lane, of which there will be many. Nasir Little - they must really like him because he just signed that deal for 4/28 not that long ago. He's a SF that runs the floor well, is active on defense with a long 7' 1" wingspawn, and has a developing 3-ball (increased his % all 4 seasons in Portland.) I don't know how he fits here with Okogie. Does it seem like we have a glut of wings to throw at people now? Keon Johnson - not sure what the Suns see in this guy but I'll keep an open mind. If you're 6'3" and not a PG you better be a good defender and stroke the 3. From what I can tell he does neither? Maybe we just need him for another contract to throw in a trade later? I'm not real sure. I somehow forgot G. Allen - a superb irritant. The kind of player you like when he's on your team and loathe when he's on the other team. Hits 47% from the corner 3 and 41% on catch & shoot 3s. Likely a perfect back-up to Booker when we have the ball in KD's hands with the reserve unit. Look for him to be a seamless fit.

Anyhow, I think we're still not done shaping the roster. Look for one more move before we have to cut down to 1 7.

[Uncle_Gene]

Okay, time for Gene's 2¢.

I'm not super in love with this trade. I'd rather have the younger Ayton, but I guess too many things were going on behind the scenes and relationships couldn't be repaired. Nurkic can play, he has back to the basket low post game, and we know he can shoot the three. Bottom line is he's always injured. Can the Suns count on him to play at least 60 games this year ? Allen can shoot, Little has athleticism and can defend. So the Suns did add some depth, but I'm going to miss Ayton a lot.

Can wait for media day Monday !

[virtual9mm]

No use drying over spilled milk, been reading scouting reports on Nurkic. When healthy, he is a good to great rebounder and interior defender. On offense, he is a great screener and potentially a good three point shooter. He is going to be virtually unplayable in the playoffs unless facing a similarly large and lumbering center because he can't defend in space. His post ups are frequent but unproductive.

https://www.blazersedge.com/2023/2/24/2 ... suf-nurkic

https://www.blazersedge.com/2023/4/21/2 ... suf-nurkic

All of this I could live with -- on offense, use him as a screener and a shooter, on defense, use him against big centers like Jokic. Against smaller centers, he is unplayable.

[Vladimir_Taltos]

So, I'll ask the inevitable...any chance we see a followon trade for another big? I really wish they would have gotten Turner out of Indiana for him, that would have been such a better move...

[specialsauce]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if they're still working to move Jrue elsewhere, this trade won't be finalized?

I think I'll be surprised if all 4 players land in Phoenix once finalized.

I think in terms of talent Nurkic is a significant downgrade, however, I don't think I realized how reliable he was from 3, and how well he can operate from the high post in terms of finding cutters or guys coming off screens. If you watch any film of him, you'll also notice that he doesn't duck contact unlike DA (I scolded by the wife too many times yelling "YOURE THE BIGGEST DUDE ON THE FLOOR, STOP FADING AWAY YOU MONUMENTAL P****).

His matchup against Jokic from December last season provides some optimism; he bodied Jokic and Gordon, finished through contact, and his ability to space the floor on pick-pop causes Jokic to have to run a bit more on defense than he would like.

Nurkic alone will change the dynamic going against Denver, and if guys are healthy, that's really the hardest match-up I can see out west. I don't buy the Lakers adding Gabe and Prince as being needle moving. Clippers haven't done much, Warriors will be worse. Kings will be interesting, but you don't exactly need dominant post play to frustrate Sabonis.

Milwaukee is scary as hell on paper now. We have nothing to throw in Giannis's way like Miami, Boston can.

Can't wait to actually start the season.

I appreciate the reminder. No more forehead vein popping "DUNK THE BALL!!!" from me.

Not so fast:

Ok ok now compare contracts

[Shabazz]

I don't think I like this move. Not because I'm attached to Ayton, but because the return was so low. I'm surprised that Jones was that eager to move him. This tells me that Booker & Jones were both over trying to light a fire under the young buck. They saw what he was capable of during that finals run and then he gave them 2 seasons of deteriorating play. I think Booker views this as his championship window and he just isn't about coddling right now.

As far as the players coming back in the trade: Nurkic - An average starting C to me. There's likely 15 starting Cs better than he is but likely 15 worse too. Again, trading a former #1 overall pick for a package headlined by him is very underwhelming. His defense has fallen off in the last few seasons from what I can tell, though I admit I haven't stayed up to watch Blazers basketball since Brandon Roy played there. I think he'll at least dunk the ball when he has an open lane, of which there will be many. Nasir Little - they must really like him because he just signed that deal for 4/28 not that long ago. He's a SF that runs the floor well, is active on defense with a long 7' 1" wingspawn, and has a developing 3-ball (increased his % all 4 seasons in Portland.) I don't know how he fits here with Okogie. Does it seem like we have a glut of wings to throw at people now? Keon Johnson - not sure what the Suns see in this guy but I'll keep an open mind. If you're 6'3" and not a PG you better be a good defender and stroke the 3. From what I can tell he does neither? Maybe we just need him for another contract to throw in a trade later? I'm not real sure. I somehow forgot G. Allen - a superb irritant. The kind of player you like when he's on your team and loathe when he's on the other team. Hits 47% from the corner 3 and 41% on catch & shoot 3s. Likely a perfect back-up to Booker when we have the ball in KD's hands with the reserve unit. Look for him to be a seamless fit.

Anyhow, I think we're still not done shaping the roster. Look for one more move before we have to cut down to 1 7.

As JG said, as Frustrayton as he was when he went up soft, Ayton is a much better finisher around the rim than Nurk.

Nurk's FT rate is about 2x DA's though.

[specialsauce]

I don't think I like this move. Not because I'm attached to Ayton, but because the return was so low. I'm surprised that Jones was that eager to move him. This tells me that Booker & Jones were both over trying to light a fire under the young buck. They saw what he was capable of during that finals run and then he gave them 2 seasons of deteriorating play. I think Booker views this as his championship window and he just isn't about coddling right now.

As far as the players coming back in the trade: Nurkic - An average starting C to me. There's likely 15 starting Cs better than he is but likely 15 worse too. Again, trading a former #1 overall pick for a package headlined by him is very underwhelming. His defense has fallen off in the last few seasons from what I can tell, though I admit I haven't stayed up to watch Blazers basketball since Brandon Roy played there. I think he'll at least dunk the ball when he has an open lane, of which there will be many. Nasir Little - they must really like him because he just signed that deal for 4/28 not that long ago. He's a SF that runs the floor well, is active on defense with a long 7' 1" wingspawn, and has a developing 3-ball (increased his % all 4 seasons in Portland.) I don't know how he fits here with Okogie. Does it seem like we have a glut of wings to throw at people now? Keon Johnson - not sure what the Suns see in this guy but I'll keep an open mind. If you're 6'3" and not a PG you better be a good defender and stroke the 3. From what I can tell he does neither? Maybe we just need him for another contract to throw in a trade later? I'm not real sure. I somehow forgot G. Allen - a superb irritant. The kind of player you like when he's on your team and loathe when he's on the other team. Hits 47% from the corner 3 and 41% on catch & shoot 3s. Likely a perfect back-up to Booker when we have the ball in KD's hands with the reserve unit. Look for him to be a seamless fit.

Anyhow, I think we're still not done shaping the roster. Look for one more move before we have to cut down to 1 7.

As JG said, as Frustrayton as he was when he went up soft, Ayton is a much better finisher around the rim than Nurk.

Nurk's FT rate is about 2x DA's though.

…… at a fraction of the cost.



Ahhhhhhhh, it feels so good to close this chapter and never have to hear about Mr max contract DA again as he falls into a pit of irrelevance

But we were guaranteed that he wasn’t getting traded, that James jones and Ishbia and Vogel LOVE him lOLolol

[Split T]

Nurks benefit is away from the rim. If our ball handler is trapped and they have to dump it to the big(Nurkic), he can actually dribble and pass. Ayton couldn’t or wouldn’t. He’d just catch and hold. Nurkic is also a better shooter. We honestly probably won’t see him roll hard to the rim much. That’ll be our other bigs. He’s gonna pop most of the time.

[Split T]

[Nodack]

I guess you could say drafting Ayton, our first #1 pick ever was a bust. He had so much potential. The body of a champion. The mind of Bambi. Will we ever hear the whole story? Probably not. Forensic pieces point to what was already said. Ayton and the Suns needed to part ways and they made a trade. It’s sad that our first #1 pick ever = this trade, which is a little underwhelming.

Now all we need is to watch Ayton and Doncic end up playing together in the All Star game someday and complete the humiliation.

[JeremyG]

Timeline podcast was discussing the trade and talking about Saric. Nurkic really is a supersized Saric. If he can stay healthy I think he helps the offense. I do worry how the defense will look.

And all I've heard all summer is how we don't need any help with the offense, all we need from Ayton is defense. So the "better fit" excuse is pretty hollow to me.

[Shabazz]

Interesting that there is no statement from JJ or Ishbia in the official announcement.

[Wally_West]

Here’s my early af guess at minutes


Book- 35 Beal-32 Durant-35 KBD-23 Nurk-21

Gordon- 25 Allen- 21 Yuta- 15 Eubanks-21

With final 12 minutes going to either Okogie, Goodwin or Little.

DLee, SLee and Bol Bol will see time when there are injuries.

[JeremyG]

Did anyone else get this in your email 15 minutes before Woj announced the trade?

[JeremyG]

Interesting that there is no statement from JJ or Ishbia in the official announcement.

Very strange. It was the most empty press release I've ever seen. My professors would have given me a failing grade if I had written one like that.

[Flagrant Fowl]

[BlaCkAdDa]

Don't like it at all.. I'll admit I was attached to Ayton ... right now he's probably the best Centre we've ever had and knowing how frustrated we all were he couldn't be better..what could have been
Clearly though the relationship broken for good and was going to happen sooner or later.. really wished we could have given it a chunk of the season to see though or got a bit more back than what we have.

Guess more info will come once it's official and people speak more freely.

[Split T]

Today I learned Keon Johnson holds the nba combine record for vertical leap at 48 inches

[JeremyG]

Don't like it at all.. I'll admit I was attached to Ayton ... right now he's probably the best Centre we've ever had and knowing how frustrated we all were he couldn't be better..what could have been
Clearly though the relationship broken for good and was going to happen sooner or later.. really wished we could have given it a chunk of the season to see though or got a bit more back than what we have.

Guess more info will come once it's official and people speak more freely.

Fun fact: Deandre Ayton is the only Suns player in franchise history to average double figures in rebounds in 5 different seasons (and he did it consecutively and in every season he played).

[3TheHardaway]

One final thought for the night:
If we had passed on Beal, and given how Portland actually wanted Ayton, do you think we could have sent CP3, Ayton, and Draft capital for Dame/Nurk? The money comes out pretty close. The guarantee date for CP3s contract and Chris Haynes posting nonsense kind of screwed the whole thing up.