TRADE: Ayton/Camara for Nurkic/Allen/Little/Johnson

[Split T]

Ya he did it to himself a bit…then covid hit and shortened the season.

There’s an argument to be made that Igor didn’t develop him…but then it depends on what you think is best. Igor did turn him into a good defensive big. He was quite awful when he came into the league.

[Flagrant Fowl]

Man I'm trying not to get into these debates

DA passing like everything else (had moments) when he was hitting cutters or making the swing pass to the corner 3.
There were also times when he already had his mind made up he was going to pass and would miss a scoring opportunity or have turnovers

I can't agree that he has the feel or passing ability of Nurkic
Anyways a thread here with some ideas/possibilities

Spoiler: show/hide

One of my first comments after the trade was about how it'll be nice to watch a Center with a basketball brain and that clip is an example of what I was talking about. I also recall you posting a clip a few weeks ago of Porzingis dishing out some great passes to Beal on cuts to the rim and speculated how Ayton might look in that role. I pushed back because I don't think Ayton can make those plays, but I know Nurkic absolutely can. The guy just needs to stay healthy.

[Flagrant Fowl]

I haven't listened to much of the national media analysis yet, but I'm skeptical of anyone's judgment who says that Nurkic isn't a better fit with this Suns team than Ayton. It's plainly obvious how the two players are different and how Nurkic's skill set better matches the role at the Center position.

[Flagrant Fowl]

Spoiler: show/hide

It was also kind of funny when Steve said he was the 4th option in Phoenix, and asked what he’d be in Portland. Nekias said 4th…haha. Mentioned Scoot, Simons, and Grant. Though I do think grant will get moved.

I had this exact conversation with someone here who's coincidentally a Blazers fan. We both agreed that he's probably the 3rd offensive option behind Scoot and Simons, but throw in Sharpe and Grant and it gets a little murky. I think he'll end up with essentially the same number of touches that he had for most of his career in Phoenix and continue to produce at a similar rate.

[JeremyG]

I haven't listened to much of the national media analysis yet, but I'm skeptical of anyone's judgment who says that Nurkic isn't a better fit with this Suns team than Ayton. It's plainly obvious how the two players are different and how Nurkic's skill set better matches the role at the Center position.

Can’t switch, can’t guard the perimeter, slow plodder when we’re trying to play at a lightning fast pace…yeah better fit for sure.

[JeremyG]

Spoiler: show/hide

It was also kind of funny when Steve said he was the 4th option in Phoenix, and asked what he’d be in Portland. Nekias said 4th…haha. Mentioned Scoot, Simons, and Grant. Though I do think grant will get moved.

I had this exact conversation with someone here who's coincidentally a Blazers fan. We both agreed that he's probably the 3rd offensive option behind Scoot and Simons, but throw in Sharpe and Grant and it gets a little murky. I think he'll end up with essentially the same number of touches that he had for most of his career in Phoenix and continue to produce at a similar rate.

Nah, #1 option, 24-26 ppg and 10-12 rpg.

[Flagrant Fowl]

Well, you're on quite a roll of getting stuff wrong about Ayton, so why stop now?

[bajanguy008]

There is absolutely no way he's avging 24 n 10

Those are not "any n everybody type numbers"......
It's not 2K man smh

Additionally, this 1st option thing
Anfernee Simons usage is through the roof when Lillard would sit, the Blazers were elated that Hornets took Miller and last month of the season Sharpe was featured a bunch

Expecting Chauncey to go away from having Guards initiate most the offense to go to Ayton on the block seems rather improbable

[JeremyG]

[Kryptonic]

Man I was totally wondering what he thought!

Said no one ever.

[Cap]

I haven't listened to much of the national media analysis yet, but I'm skeptical of anyone's judgment who says that Nurkic isn't a better fit with this Suns team than Ayton. It's plainly obvious how the two players are different and how Nurkic's skill set better matches the role at the Center position.

Can’t switch, can’t guard the perimeter, slow plodder when we’re trying to play at a lightning fast pace…yeah better fit for sure.

We played at a lightning fast pace with Oliver Miller. When it comes to big men, running is more about moving the ball than moving your ass. Having a center who can beat everybody down court is nice, but it’s not essential. That was rarely Ayton, anyway; he has the foot speed but not the reaction time.

[Split T]

Ayton didn’t guard in space, switch, or run the court last year either. At least Nurkic won’t freeze when he gets the ball in the short roll.

Ayton was clearly done here…the Ayton Portland gets won’t be the Ayton we would’ve got.

I hate that it’s gonna always be about Nurkic vs Ayton. Ayton will be better than Nurkic next year. I just need Nurkic to be better than Ayton last year and get a boost from Little or Allen.

[JeremyG]

Ayton didn’t guard in space, switch, or run the court last year either. At least Nurkic won’t freeze when he gets the ball in the short roll.

Ayton was clearly done here…the Ayton Portland gets won’t be the Ayton we would’ve got.

I hate that it’s gonna always be about Nurkic vs Ayton. Ayton will be better than Nurkic next year. I just need Nurkic to be better than Ayton last year and get a boost from Little or Allen.

Then we’re in trouble, because that ain’t happening.

Nurkic wasn’t better than Ayton last year, and Nurkic will likely decline further this year.

[Superbone]

I haven't listened to much of the national media analysis yet, but I'm skeptical of anyone's judgment who says that Nurkic isn't a better fit with this Suns team than Ayton. It's plainly obvious how the two players are different and how Nurkic's skill set better matches the role at the Center position.

Can’t switch, can’t guard the perimeter, slow plodder when we’re trying to play at a lightning fast pace…yeah better fit for sure.

We played at a lightning fast pace with Oliver Miller. When it comes to big men, running is more about moving the ball than moving your ass. Having a center who can beat everybody down court is nice, but it’s not essential. That was rarely Ayton, anyway; he has the foot speed but not the reaction time.

Nor desire.

[Superbone]

Anybody expecting Nurkic to outplay Ayton is going to be disappointed but we don't need that from him. Just set picks, be aggressive, and make the right passes. If he plays his role, he'll be fine. Assuming he can stay on the court.

[Superbone]

From Hoops Rumors:

While Fischer points out that the Suns are extremely short on point guard depth, he admits he’s not sure if the team will be eager to sacrifice its wing depth by moving a player like Little or Allen. Allen, in particular, had been on Phoenix’s radar for a while, as Fischer noted on Wednesday.

Suns owner Mat Ishbia was “very involved” in the trade that landed Allen, Little, Johnson, and Jusuf Nurkic in Phoenix, according to Sam Amick of The Athletic. As Amick explains, the Suns view the move as one that not only adds depth but gives them players who better fit around their stars. Nurkic was a longtime target for the club, which is “thrilled” to have landed him, Amick adds.

[ShelC]

I don't think the Suns will make a move for a PG just yet. They'll see how things shake out with the Big 3 within the offense and how guys like EG, Allen and the swings work. If it looks like we need a true PG after 20-30 games to organize things and run offense, then we might look into a trade for someone like McConnell. And by that time we should know what we have in Little and Allen to decide if we can afford to give one of them up in a trade. If KBD and Watanabe are playing well, maybe Little becomes expendable. If EG is playing well enough to limit Allen's minutes, maybe he's the sacrificial lamb.

[Split T]

Ayton didn’t guard in space, switch, or run the court last year either. At least Nurkic won’t freeze when he gets the ball in the short roll.

Ayton was clearly done here…the Ayton Portland gets won’t be the Ayton we would’ve got.

I hate that it’s gonna always be about Nurkic vs Ayton. Ayton will be better than Nurkic next year. I just need Nurkic to be better than Ayton last year and get a boost from Little or Allen.

Then we’re in trouble, because that ain’t happening.

Nurkic wasn’t better than Ayton last year, and Nurkic will likely decline further this year.

I guess I should say Nurkic needs to be better than I thought Ayton was last year. Ayton was better than Bam in your mind.

[3TheHardaway]

It's not about being "better than Ayton." It's about fit and skillset.

Teams are going to be forced to trap Booker and Beal to muck up our offensive sets. Ayton has never demonstrated good decision making from the highpost or arc besides hesitating and guesstimating a 15-18 foot jumper.

Nurkic can make the skip pass, and can make plays while on the move to the rim in the short roll. Ayton has not developed or learned how to do this. It leaves the team vulnerable to blitzing and trapping P/R with him. Now teams will need to defend three different 3-level scorers, stay attached to a shooter, and will pay for double off the 5 in the high post.

On defense, no one has questioned Deandre's lateral quickness or athleticism, but his defensive metrics match the eye test of a 7-foot 250 lb player who can't execute defensive schemes past a drop, doesn't offer much weakside rim protection, and was incapable of switching due to poor effort and BBIQ. We are nearly in the same place defensively given the version of DA he chose to be in Phoenix. At least now we won't have expectations of our uber-athletic, ridiculously strong center slowing down AD, Embiid, Giannis, Bam, JJJ, and the other athletics bigs. We know Nurkic will be hunted on anything above the low block. We can scheme around a player's known weaknesses, but scheming around a player's mood that particular day would baffle the best tacticians in the game.

I'm excited to see how these additions look. With roster that could have 10-11 playable guys (Book, KD, Beal, KBD, Yuta, EG, Nas, Eubanks, Okogie, Allen, ?Bol, ?Goodwin), we'll have options to make adjustments based on abilities rather than benching a max contract center for Jock freaking Landale.

[Split T]

From Hoops Rumors:

While Fischer points out that the Suns are extremely short on point guard depth, he admits he’s not sure if the team will be eager to sacrifice its wing depth by moving a player like Little or Allen. Allen, in particular, had been on Phoenix’s radar for a while, as Fischer noted on Wednesday.

Suns owner Mat Ishbia was “very involved” in the trade that landed Allen, Little, Johnson, and Jusuf Nurkic in Phoenix, according to Sam Amick of The Athletic. As Amick explains, the Suns view the move as one that not only adds depth but gives them players who better fit around their stars. Nurkic was a longtime target for the club, which is “thrilled” to have landed him, Amick adds.

It does feel like we’re doing a lot of damage control with all the Nurkic praise. I think Nurkic will work, but he’s not some amazing player. He’s the best big we could get in exchange for Ayton.