Piecing together the timeline and it's pretty clear to me that Ayton's fate with the Suns was sealed after the Beal trade was completed. Probably even before given how the season ended and needing to move Chris Paul. Everyone talked about how restricted the Suns would be with the four "max" contracts and Ayton was obviously the only way to improve their flexibility. A priority for the Suns was to break his contract into more manageable pieces, and the whole NBA knew it.
Except that was not the "only way." They had two or three free agents they could have re-signed to medium-range salaries (as it was rumored they might do), and they had Cam Payne's salary. Those would have kept roster flexibility and the ability to make in-season trades in place.
They understood the positional talent downgrade from Ayton was likely inevitable if the Suns were to achieve their first priority, so I imagine they put together a list of contract and player values they'd target in the whole package. Remember that the only other rumored Ayton trade was a pu pu platter from Dallas? That somewhat indicated how the rest of the league views Ayton's value. I'm sure he was offered to both Brooklyn and Washington, and both of those teams decided to stick with their own young bigs (Claxton, Gafford) instead of taking on Ayton and his inflated salary. As much as I enjoyed 'bazz list of Ayton packages, I can't really imagine most of those teams thinking differently than the Nets or Wiz.
It was rumored that the Suns turned down an offer centered around Wendell Carter Jr. Also, it was reported by I believe a national insider and then confirmed by Gambo that the Wizards asked for Ayton and Phoenix refused.
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.
We could have signed those guys to medium sized deals, but that would have meant Ishbia spending 4-5 times the contract in salary. Not our money, but hard to expect anyone to spend 50-60 extra million on players that aren’t that good just to try and trade them. I don’t think that was ever gonna happen.
I think we did enough in free agency that trading Ayton for depth was not an absolute necessity, but needed to happen for other reasons. We were able to wait out a deal because we got the depth in free agency, but probably always knew we’d move him…at least as long as Portland moved Dame.
And I think the reason we weren’t interested in an Ayton for Nurkic swap before a dame trade is because we didn’t think Nurkic/Little was enough. We wanted another piece. The article says we didn’t know who it was but I think we had a very good idea. Maybe we didn’t know the exact player, but I’m sure we gave them players that would be acceptable on the teams that might be after Dame.
Yeah, there's no way Ayton could. Completely incapable!
(All plays are from last season.)
Ayton has had more turnovers than assists every season of his career. As with many things in his game, he shows occasional flashes but passing and playmaking is not something that he is consistently good at.
It wasn't his role. He wasn't asked to do it.
And we're talking about a specific role of passing to a cutter.
Here’s the problem Jeremy. There wasn’t a question of whether or not Ayton could do the things his highlights show him doing, it was that he could never be COUNTED ON to do any of it. When you would expect a big game out of him he would put up a stinker, blow a layup that should have been a dunk or stand there and just watch.
In other words, everything Trail Blazers fans are trying to warn us about Nurkic.
I love how you pick and choose what to quote from other people. You did exactly what we all knew you would do.
Maybe quote this part too:
Enough excuses for the guy. And please stop with Nurkic this and Nurkic that just because he was who Ayton got traded for. Accept it and move on. Please.
Ayton has had more turnovers than assists every season of his career. As with many things in his game, he shows occasional flashes but passing and playmaking is not something that he is consistently good at.
It wasn't his role. He wasn't asked to do it.
And we're talking about a specific role of passing to a cutter.
Here’s the problem Jeremy. There wasn’t a question of whether or not Ayton could do the things his highlights show him doing, it was that he could never be COUNTED ON to do any of it. When you would expect a big game out of him he would put up a stinker, blow a layup that should have been a dunk or stand there and just watch.
In other words, everything Trail Blazers fans are trying to warn us about Nurkic.
I love how you pick and choose what to quote from other people. You did exactly what we all knew you would do.
Maybe quote this part too:
Enough excuses for the guy. And please stop with Nurkic this and Nurkic that just because he was who Ayton got traded for. Accept it and move on. Please.
And when I asked for the Ayton slander to please stop, did it? Nope, it continued for 5 straight years!
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.
We could have signed those guys to medium sized deals, but that would have meant Ishbia spending 4-5 times the contract in salary. Not our money, but hard to expect anyone to spend 50-60 extra million on players that aren’t that good just to try and trade them. I don’t think that was ever gonna happen.
I think we did enough in free agency that trading Ayton for depth was not an absolute necessity, but needed to happen for other reasons. We were able to wait out a deal because we got the depth in free agency, but probably always knew we’d move him…at least as long as Portland moved Dame.
And I think the reason we weren’t interested in an Ayton for Nurkic swap before a dame trade is because we didn’t think Nurkic/Little was enough. We wanted another piece. The article says we didn’t know who it was but I think we had a very good idea. Maybe we didn’t know the exact player, but I’m sure we gave them players that would be acceptable on the teams that might be after Dame.
The article makes it sound like we would have caved for Oladipo!
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.
And we're talking about a specific role of passing to a cutter.
Here’s the problem Jeremy. There wasn’t a question of whether or not Ayton could do the things his highlights show him doing, it was that he could never be COUNTED ON to do any of it. When you would expect a big game out of him he would put up a stinker, blow a layup that should have been a dunk or stand there and just watch.
In other words, everything Trail Blazers fans are trying to warn us about Nurkic.
I love how you pick and choose what to quote from other people. You did exactly what we all knew you would do.
Maybe quote this part too:
Enough excuses for the guy. And please stop with Nurkic this and Nurkic that just because he was who Ayton got traded for. Accept it and move on. Please.
And when I asked for the Ayton slander to please stop, did it? Nope, it continued for 5 straight years!
I’m an equal opportunity type person…. They get the criticism when deserved. If nurk sucks. Of course I’m going to say something. I’m also going to say something when someone vehemently defends someone when they’re the actual problem too….
I just don't see how the surprise inclusion of Grayson Allen made the Suns excitedly say "yes" to this trade. Is he going to be a factor for us? Do we really want him getting minutes over, say, Yuta or KBD or Little or others?
We've been on him for a while tho and he seems to fit the mold of a James Jones type of player - well coached in college thru 4 years, still youngish but with good experience and comes from a winning team and plays tough. He can start or come off the bench and provides some insurance behind Book and EG. I don't think he's necessarily competing with KDB, Yuta or Little at the 3 spot. He'll be mixed and matched with Beal, Book and EG, possibly Goodwin.
I also think he adds some of that toughness/chippiness we lost when Crowder left. And Nurk will add some physicality we haven't had in the frontcourt - and that's not even a knock just on DA. Dario, Frank, Javale weren't physically imposing or regarded as "bangers". Biz gave us some of that but was limited with his skillset.
Allen is the most proven shooter outside of EG in our others group. He started 131 games over the last 2 years in Milwaukee. That’s a really good Milwaukee team. He’s a consistent 40% 3pt shooter on high volume. He’s also an agressive and willing defender. His shooting also went up in the playoffs. He’s quite good and I think is being vastly underrated on this board. I don’t like him, he’s got a pretty big history of being a dirty player, but I think he’s the most likely 5th starter for us.
I just don't see how the surprise inclusion of Grayson Allen made the Suns excitedly say "yes" to this trade. Is he going to be a factor for us? Do we really want him getting minutes over, say, Yuta or KBD or Little or others?
He’s definitely been a better nba player than those 3…it’s not really close.
I just don't see how the surprise inclusion of Grayson Allen made the Suns excitedly say "yes" to this trade. Is he going to be a factor for us? Do we really want him getting minutes over, say, Yuta or KBD or Little or others?
He’s definitely been a better nba player than those 3…it’s not really close.
He was the starting shooting guard on the team with the best record last year. We’re asking him to be our backup shooting guard. This gives us the best guard rotation in basketball.
I don’t like Allen personally, hate players that injure other players. But he is a good player.
It was quite counterproductive that we traded Chris Paul away who has an elaborate history of being dirty and then acquired Grayson Allen just three months later, wasn’t it? I do believe he fits in seamlessly on this team with his ability to shoot from beyond the arc at a high percentage as well as defend, and am truly excited to have him play for us.
Here’s the problem Jeremy. There wasn’t a question of whether or not Ayton could do the things his highlights show him doing, it was that he could never be COUNTED ON to do any of it. When you would expect a big game out of him he would put up a stinker, blow a layup that should have been a dunk or stand there and just watch.
In other words, everything Trail Blazers fans are trying to warn us about Nurkic.
I love how you pick and choose what to quote from other people. You did exactly what we all knew you would do.
Maybe quote this part too:
Enough excuses for the guy. And please stop with Nurkic this and Nurkic that just because he was who Ayton got traded for. Accept it and move on. Please.
And when I asked for the Ayton slander to please stop, did it? Nope, it continued for 5 straight years!
I’m an equal opportunity type person…. They get the criticism when deserved. If nurk sucks. Of course I’m going to say something. I’m also going to say something when someone vehemently defends someone when they’re the actual problem too….
Yeah, can we at least wait until Nurk sucks to bag on him? Ayton got that at least.
"Too little, too late, too unbothered."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.
Thanks for that perspective. I may be underrating him. I guess I'm overreacting to his dirty play and being a big asshole, partly.
I think we're going to like him when he's being nasty for us. At least if he's not over the top dirty. The difference between Pat Bev and Allen is that Pat Bev has had a personal beef with the Suns while Allen hasn't had any run ins with us thus far. Another difference is that Allen is actually a good player.
"Too little, too late, too unbothered."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.
In other words, everything Trail Blazers fans are trying to warn us about Nurkic.
I love how you pick and choose what to quote from other people. You did exactly what we all knew you would do.
Maybe quote this part too:
Enough excuses for the guy. And please stop with Nurkic this and Nurkic that just because he was who Ayton got traded for. Accept it and move on. Please.
And when I asked for the Ayton slander to please stop, did it? Nope, it continued for 5 straight years!
I’m an equal opportunity type person…. They get the criticism when deserved. If nurk sucks. Of course I’m going to say something. I’m also going to say something when someone vehemently defends someone when they’re the actual problem too….
Yeah, can we at least wait until Nurk sucks to bag on him? Ayton got that at least.
I seem to remember it differently. Especially after his "second contract" quote that was taken completely out of context. Plus, Nurkic already has a 9-year history to look at in the league.
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.
Allen is the most proven shooter outside of EG in our others group. He started 131 games over the last 2 years in Milwaukee. That’s a really good Milwaukee team. He’s a consistent 40% 3pt shooter on high volume. He’s also an agressive and willing defender. His shooting also went up in the playoffs. He’s quite good and I think is being vastly underrated on this board. I don’t like him, he’s got a pretty big history of being a dirty player, but I think he’s the most likely 5th starter for us.
No way, he's much too small to start at SF.
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.
It's fine to like the haul Portland got in its recent trades. But I think it's weird how many people are listing all the assets Portland got "for Dame." They also gave up other rotation players and picks, like Nurkic, Little, Johnson, etc. Of course the haul looks stacked if you exclude most of the things one side lost in the trade but meticulously list everything they got back.
