DONALD TRUMP INDICTED

[Nodack]

Trump truthed (tweeted) 47 times today about E. Jean Carroll. He seems big mad that her latest defamation trial against him will not be delayed or dismissed.

As I understood it and could be wrong, I thought the first ruling was a done deal. Trump lost the case and when he left the courthouse he said the exact same things in front of mics and cameras that landed him in trouble the first time around. I thought I heard that there isn’t a new trial, the judge just decides how much more Trump has to pay on top of the first guilty verdict.

[In2ition]

She seems totally unbiased and fair.

"Some info on Judge Florence Pan, one of the judges on the 3-judge panel hearing oral arguments on Trump's appeal of Judge Chutkan's order denying presidential immunity in J6 case.

Pan, appointed by Joe Biden, is married to Max Stier--a Dem Party activist and one of Brett Kavanaugh's chief antagonists. Stier claimed he observed Kav engaged in lewd behavior at Yale--he reported it to FBI and Senate during Kavanaugh debacle. He was recently featured in a film about Kavanaugh that criticized the FBI's investigation into various claims.

A longtime DC fixture, Pan has friends in high places.

From WashPo in 2021: "In one of her first hearings Wednesday, Pan took over the politically sensitive lawsuit brought by 2016 Trump campaign adviser Carter Page against the FBI, Justice Department and several former officials alleging they unlawfully surveilled and investigated him during the FBI’s Russia probe.

A D.C. veteran, Pan offered to recuse herself from the case, saying she has been friends with a lawyer for defendant Lisa Page, a former FBI attorney. Pan said she has known Page’s attorney, former Justice Department lawyer Amy Jeffress, for 27 years, attended her wedding, and met Page at a party."

Jeffress is married to DC District Court Judge Chris Cooper, appointed by Obama.

Merrick Garland officiated the wedding.

Isn't DC cute?

Although 3-judge panels are supposed to be "randomly" selected, Pan oddly is seated on an unusually high percentage of consequential political cases. She was on BOTH panels to hear arguments on an appeal related to 1512c2, obstruction of an official proceeding.

Pan was the decisive 2-1 judge in both decisions upholding DOJ's use of the post-Enron statute. Her lead opinion--and I use that term pejoratively--in Fischer v USA is now under review at SCOTUS.

While Pan admitted the "novel" use of 1512c2 in J6 cases--more than 300 J6ers slapped with the evidence tampering felony for their conduct on Jan 6 as is Donald Trump--she nonetheless adopted the broadest reading of 1512c2 to uphold DOJs interpretation.

Pan--and Childs, also on today's panel--upheld Judge Beryl Howell's nondisclosure order preventing Twitter from notifying Trump about Jack Smith's subpoena of his data and Howell's $350,000 fine against the company. Pan: "The whole point of the nondisclosure order was to avoid tipping off the former President about the warrant’s existence."

Pan--and Childs again along with Obama appointee Cornelia Pillard--also upheld Howell's extraordinary ruling that pierced atty-client privilege btw Evan Corcoran and Trump in classified docs case, forcing Corcoran to turn over all his records to Jack Smith.

A decision, by the way, that never should have been made in DC since the alleged "crime" happened in southern Florida. Pan expressed no jurisdictional concerns there.

Pan has been assigned to several panels for appeals filed by J6 defendants. Just last week. Pan denied the appeal of Russel Alford, convicted by a DC jury of 4 misdemeanors and sentenced by Judge Chutkan to 12 months in prison.

This is the thinking J6ers must deal with. (Henderson, on today's panel, wrote this but Pan concurred):

"The trial evidence indicated that, during Alford’s brief time within the Capitol, he was neither violent nor destructive. Nevertheless, we affirm his convictions because a jury could rationally find that his unauthorized presence in the Capitol as part of an unruly mob contributed to the disruption of the Congress’s electoral certification and jeopardized public safety."

He was inside for 11 minutes.

Her performance today was less than compelling--superior, smug, combative, and dull.

She clearly came in ready to defend DOJ/Jack Smith--and her preposterous hypothetical about a president using Seal Team Six to kill a political rival was a set up to result in all the deadlines we are already seeing.

As I have suggested to some officeholders and candidates--the DC federal courts must be shut down. These partisans are making some of the most important judicial decisions in the nation's history and are ill-equipped to do so.

Judge Florence Pan is exhibit A."

[JeremyG]

These decisions will ultimately all come down to Trump’s SCOTUS (including whether or not they want to review something), so I don’t see any reason for Trumpers to worry about bias.

[In2ition]

I think everyone should worry about bias on the bench, not just one side or the other, tbh.

[Mori Chu]

What is the source of that tweet you posted? You quoted the tweet itself; where did she get that information?

[In2ition]

No clue. The journalist didn't reveal her sources.

[Nodack]

Trump is totally guilty and should be in jail. This is all political posturing. Judge Chutkin is the main judge in the case and was put there by Trump. She didn’t recuse herself. Should she? Pan offered to recuse herself from the case. The Federal Judges are picked by Presidents. Try to find one that isn’t an Dem or Republican. There might be some independents. Are they all biased and not allowed to listen to cases that have anything to do with politics? Trump cases can only be heard by judges appointed by him? Then they would all biased in his favor according that logic. This system worked for hundreds of years and now that Trump is on trial Republicans have decided the entire criminal justice system is fake and fraudulent. Maga of course will eat it up like they always do. The real courts don’t give a rats ass about Trump/Maga’s claims.

[In2ition]

Trump is totally guilty and should be in jail. This is all political posturing. Judge Chutkin is the main judge in the case and was put there by Trump. She didn’t recuse herself. Should she? Pan offered to recuse herself from the case. The Federal Judges are picked by Presidents. Try to find one that isn’t an Dem or Republican. There might be some independents. Are they all biased and not allowed to listen to cases that have anything to do with politics? Trump cases can only be heard by judges appointed by him? Then they would all biased in his favor according that logic. This system worked for hundreds of years and now that Trump is on trial Republicans have decided the entire criminal justice system is fake and fraudulent. Maga of course will eat it up like they always do. The real courts don’t give a rats ass about Trump/Maga’s claims.

I guess the pendulum could never swing back. It's only fascist and authoritarian if the Conservatives do it, right?

[Superbone]

Trump is totally guilty and should be in jail. This is all political posturing. Judge Chutkin is the main judge in the case and was put there by Trump. She didn’t recuse herself. Should she? Pan offered to recuse herself from the case. The Federal Judges are picked by Presidents. Try to find one that isn’t an Dem or Republican. There might be some independents. Are they all biased and not allowed to listen to cases that have anything to do with politics? Trump cases can only be heard by judges appointed by him? Then they would all biased in his favor according that logic. This system worked for hundreds of years and now that Trump is on trial Republicans have decided the entire criminal justice system is fake and fraudulent. Maga of course will eat it up like they always do. The real courts don’t give a rats ass about Trump/Maga’s claims.

I guess the pendulum could never swing back. It's only fascist and authoritarian if the Conservatives do it, right?

Dude. If Trump were a democrat (which he has been), I'd feel exactly the same way about him.

[Nodack]

Do what? It’s called the justice system and it is filled with all kinds of different people, races, genders, political parties. I am good with it as I have been my entire life. I am not thrilled that a Trump appointee is presiding over his case but, that is the justice system. It’s a random thing. They didn’t assign her to the case because she was appointed by Trump so she could tip the scales in his favor. She was just assigned and she didn’t ask for it. She just ruled against him by saying he isn’t immune from prosecution. Good for her. Now Trump probably hates her and is calling her a Biden plant by now.

[In2ition]

Trump is totally guilty and should be in jail. This is all political posturing. Judge Chutkin is the main judge in the case and was put there by Trump. She didn’t recuse herself. Should she? Pan offered to recuse herself from the case. The Federal Judges are picked by Presidents. Try to find one that isn’t an Dem or Republican. There might be some independents. Are they all biased and not allowed to listen to cases that have anything to do with politics? Trump cases can only be heard by judges appointed by him? Then they would all biased in his favor according that logic. This system worked for hundreds of years and now that Trump is on trial Republicans have decided the entire criminal justice system is fake and fraudulent. Maga of course will eat it up like they always do. The real courts don’t give a rats ass about Trump/Maga’s claims.

I guess the pendulum could never swing back. It's only fascist and authoritarian if the Conservatives do it, right?

Dude. If Trump were a democrat (which he has been), I'd feel exactly the same way about him.

That's not what I was saying. I know you never liked Trump. Didn't ask about you liking someone or not.

[In2ition]

Do what? It’s called the justice system and it is filled with all kinds of different people, races, genders, political parties. I am good with it as I have been my entire life. I am not thrilled that a Trump appointee is presiding over his case but, that is the justice system. It’s a random thing. They didn’t assign her to the case because she was appointed by Trump so she could tip the scales in his favor. She was just assigned and she didn’t ask for it. She just ruled against him by saying he isn’t immune from prosecution. Good for her. Now Trump probably hates her and is calling her a Biden plant by now.

Every precendent that's broken, just opens up things for the pendulum to do some major damage the other direction. That's all that I'm saying. Keep that same energy if it does go the other way, he gets exonerated and then former Presidents start getting arrested and facing charges.

[Mori Chu]

I'm fine with Democrats who commit crimes also being prosecuted for those crimes. In fact I prefer that. Pendulum, swing away!

[In2ition]

I'm fine with Democrats who commit crimes also being prosecuted for those crimes. In fact I prefer that. Pendulum, swing away!

Are you fine with Democrats being prosecuted and sentenced for crimes they didn't do or trumped up charges that no one has ever been prosecuted for?

Right now, they aren't even being held accountable for the crimes they have committed.

[Mori Chu]

I'm fine with Democrats who commit crimes also being prosecuted for those crimes. In fact I prefer that. Pendulum, swing away!

Are you fine with Democrats being prosecuted and sentenced for crimes they didn't do or trumped up charges that no one has ever been prosecuted for?

Right now, they aren't even being held accountable for the crimes they have committed.

If somebody doesn't do a crime, they'll be exonerated when they face trial (or it'll be thrown out before trial). I'm fine with allowing the justice system to do its work. And I'm fine with any Democrat being prosecuted for something "that no one has ever been prosecuted for" if a Democrat does something illegal that nobody else has been prosecuted for.

[JeremyG]

Trump is totally guilty and should be in jail. This is all political posturing. Judge Chutkin is the main judge in the case and was put there by Trump. She didn’t recuse herself. Should she? Pan offered to recuse herself from the case. The Federal Judges are picked by Presidents. Try to find one that isn’t an Dem or Republican. There might be some independents. Are they all biased and not allowed to listen to cases that have anything to do with politics? Trump cases can only be heard by judges appointed by him? Then they would all biased in his favor according that logic. This system worked for hundreds of years and now that Trump is on trial Republicans have decided the entire criminal justice system is fake and fraudulent. Maga of course will eat it up like they always do. The real courts don’t give a rats ass about Trump/Maga’s claims.

Chutkan was appointed by Obama. Cannon is the judge appointed by Trump (she is overseeing the classified documents case). It’s strange how quiet Trump has been about her.

[In2ition]

I'm fine with Democrats who commit crimes also being prosecuted for those crimes. In fact I prefer that. Pendulum, swing away!

Are you fine with Democrats being prosecuted and sentenced for crimes they didn't do or trumped up charges that no one has ever been prosecuted for?

Right now, they aren't even being held accountable for the crimes they have committed.

If somebody doesn't do a crime, they'll be exonerated when they face trial (or it'll be thrown out before trial). I'm fine with allowing the justice system to do its work. And I'm fine with any Democrat being prosecuted for something "that no one has ever been prosecuted for" if a Democrat does something illegal that nobody else has been prosecuted for.

If the system is rigged against your side, it won't matter.

[Nodack]

You guys think the system is rigged against your side because Trump keeps saying it. He says a LOT of things that are complete hogwash. In fact I would venture to say 90+% of everything he says is total bs.

All this is unprecedented because we have never had such a completely morally bankrupt man as President before Trump. He decided that as President he can do or say anything he wants without consequences and is finding out that isn’t true.

[In2ition]

Was that helpful to furthering the conversation?

[Mori Chu]

It's too bad that we have gotten to a point where it has become so important who appointed a given judge/justice. It shouldn't be the case that an "Obama judge" judges much differently than a "Trump judge." But, alas.