Trump 2024

[In2ition]

I don’t care what we call it. I guess most are settling on Autocracy as the word we call what right wing strong men are doing all over the world. Russia, Hungary, Israel and the GOP in the US.

From above again.

However, these principles are under threat in many countries by populist authoritarian regimes that gain and maintain control through the manipulation of the media and autocratic legalism. The latter phenomenon is exemplified by the democratic façade created by leaders such as Viktor Orbán in Hungary, in an attempt to legitimize their regime. These leaders undermine democracy legally, make changes underneath the surface, and remove or control key democratic institutions and procedures. This undermines citizens' ability to make informed choices, rendering the election process a mere façade for the biases and manipulations behind the scenes. While election day itself might be mostly free of irregularities, especially since 2012, it is in the pre-voting phase where biases and manipulation are rooted.

In 2022, the European Parliament deemed Hungary undemocratic, assigning the label of electoral autocracy to its regime./i]

I see it every day. Trump and the GOP trashing all of our US institutions from top to bottom. Cause distrust in the system? Check. The media is fake and evil except ours. Check.

Calling out the media when it reports fake news is trashing US institutions and causing distrust in the system? Would it be better if no one ever questioned the media even if they absolutely lied?

[Nodack]

If it was just the media it would be fine and expected. The media is hated by all politicians when they call politicians out on their lies. I am talking about US institutions like our justice system, FBI, prosecutors, judges, clerks, IRS, CDC, voting. Any institution that has anything to do with state or local government is attacked as evil and corrupt.

[In2ition]

If it was just the media it would be fine and expected. I am talking about US institutions like our justice system, FBI, prosecutors, judges, clerks, IRS, CDC, voting. Any institution that has anything to do with state or local government is attacked as evil and corrupt.

Not everyone in these institutions are evil and corrupt, but when it happens, it needs to be called out. You don't agree?

[Nodack]

Lets just say I think the GOP is much more evil and corrupt than any US institution. Trump is being called out for being evil and corrupt by some of those same institutions and that makes them seem even more evil and corrupt to the GOP and Trump followers. I on the other hand are grateful that some of those institutions are holding Trump accountable for all his evil and corrupt actions in courts of law with lawyers, prosecutors, judges, juries. If Trump is innocent his lawyers will competently defend him and he will be acquitted. That’s the way it has worked for hundreds of years in the US. The system isn’t perfect. No system is.

Right before WWII there was a coup attempt to take over the US government. They had a secret army, weapons, bombs and had it all planned out. They bombed two weapons factories and killed a bunch of people before the FBI stepped in right before their attack on a bunch of Congressmen and arrested many of them. They stood trial. The defendants were popular and had a lot of support. Big crowds supporting them were always in attendance. The jury forman ended up being a relative of the accused. They were all acquitted. There is hope for Trump.

[Nodack]

John Kelly goes on the record to confirm several disturbing stories about Trump
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/02/politics ... index.html

“What can I add that has not already been said?” Kelly said, when asked if he wanted to weigh in on his former boss in light of recent comments made by other former Trump officials. “A person that thinks those who defend their country in uniform, or are shot down or seriously wounded in combat, or spend years being tortured as POWs are all ‘suckers’ because ‘there is nothing in it for them.’ A person that did not want to be seen in the presence of military amputees because ‘it doesn’t look good for me.’ A person who demonstrated open contempt for a Gold Star family – for all Gold Star families – on TV during the 2016 campaign, and rants that our most precious heroes who gave their lives in America’s defense are ‘losers’ and wouldn’t visit their graves in France.

“A person who is not truthful regarding his position on the protection of unborn life, on women, on minorities, on evangelical Christians, on Jews, on working men and women,” Kelly continued. “A person that has no idea what America stands for and has no idea what America is all about. A person who cavalierly suggests that a selfless warrior who has served his country for 40 years in peacetime and war should lose his life for treason – in expectation that someone will take action. A person who admires autocrats and murderous dictators. A person that has nothing but contempt for our democratic institutions, our Constitution, and the rule of law.

“There is nothing more that can be said,” Kelly concluded. “God help us.”

[In2ition]

Lets just say I think the GOP is much more evil and corrupt than any US institution. Trump is being called out for being evil and corrupt by some of those same institutions and that makes them seem even more evil and corrupt to the GOP and Trump followers. I on the other hand are grateful that some of those institutions are holding Trump accountable for all his evil and corrupt actions in courts of law with lawyers, prosecutors, judges, juries. If Trump is innocent his lawyers will competently defend him and he will be acquitted. That’s the way it has worked for hundreds of years in the US. The system isn’t perfect. No system is.

Right before WWII there was a coup attempt to take over the US government. They had a secret army, weapons, bombs and had it all planned out. They bombed two weapons factories and killed a bunch of people before the FBI stepped in right before their attack on a bunch of Congressmen and arrested many of them. They stood trial. The defendants were popular and had a lot of support. Big crowds supporting them were always in attendance. The jury forman ended up being a relative of the accused. They were all acquitted. There is hope for Trump.

I am old enough to remember the bombing of the Capitol by the Weather Underground group. Clinton pardoned a couple of them, and I think Bill Ayers, who was one, was a collegue of Obama's on a board.

Is this normal in court? You may be surprised that he's also funding Nikki Haley's campaign.

[Mori Chu]

It can be tempting to assume that guys like Orban and Ergodan are just regular Presidents doing regular things. But I think if you look at their actual activity it is scary and goes too far. I think it's right to refer to them as autocratic or reducing the level of democracy of the countries they lead.

Here are some examples:

Orban and the media:

- Silencing criticism in the media:

"The Fidesz government has been accused of "silencing media",[6] and of controlling all major media outlets in Hungary,[7] thus creating an echo chamber that has excluded alternative political voices.[2][8][9] The government has been accused of selectively starving non-loyal media organisations of government advertising revenues (the government is the country's second largest advertiser[10]) while pressuring owners of media companies by targeting their other business interests so that they would either fall in line or sell their media holdings."

- Firing disloyal media members and pushing a loyal state media:

"State media is said to be "entirely loyal to" Orbán and his government.[2][8][16][12] Soon after taking office, the Fidesz government dispatched new managers to the offices of the Hungarian public radio that were later described as "propagandists" by one employee (a popular radio host). A third of the staff at public broadcasters was also purged.[13]"

Orban and stacking the judiciary with cronies:

"The Fidesz government has been accused of removing independent judges,[6] stacking the Constitutional Court and judicial institutions with loyalists,[8] and appointing as chief prosecutor a former party member who has seldom pursued corruption charges against Fidesz politicians.[51]"

Orban and meddling with elections and voting:

- Setting up fake political parties:

"The government passed legislation setting up lax requirements and financial incentives for creating new political parties. The resulting proliferation of fake parties has further divided the opposition vote.[61][62][63] Fidesz candidates have been accused of directly colluding with the "bogus parties" to prop them up.[64][11]"

Orban and education:

- Orban has cracked down on educational institutions that don't agree with his views:

"The Hungarian government passed a bill allegedly targeting the Soros-funded Central European University that effectively prevented CEU's operation. The law was denounced both domestically and internationally as it was perceived as infringing upon academic freedom.[82][83] CEU announced it was closing down due to government pressure in December 2018.[83]"

- Orban has pushed nationalist content into school curriculum:

"Promotion of Hungarian nationalism in schools: The government has battled educators over textbook content that promotes a narrative of ethnocentrism and Hungarian victimhood. The government line has been pushed into school textbooks; history textbooks present Orbán's views on the threat of immigration, going on to state that "It can be problematic for different cultures to coexist", and the high school curriculum has been expanded to include teaching the new Fidesz-passed Hungarian Constitution (that includes provisions that may discriminate against religious minorities).[4]"

Orban and cronyism and corruption:

"During the first 6 years of the Fidesz government, 5 of Orbán's closest associates were awarded ~5% of all public procurement contracts, totaling $2.5bn.[89] The Fidesz government has been accused of diverting billions of euros of EU and federal funds toward loyal allies and relatives (with those who fell out of favour with the party also ceasing being granted the lucrative contracts).[13][56][90]"

Orban and anti-LGBT intolerance:

"In 2021, the Hungarian parliament passed a bill that featured provisions banning depictions of LGBT persons in mass media or educational materials that may be viewed by underage persons."

There's much more, but these are just some examples. I'm talking about a leader who technically still holds elections, but has such a crackdown on every institution of the government, media, education, etc. that it is almost impossible to oppose him or vote him out. I think this is dangerous. I don't want to see such things to happen in the USA.


Source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism ... s%20agenda.

[In2ition]

I agree that if you subvert free opposition speech and try to run unopposed by eliminating the competition that sounds like dictator type actions. If you can get away with doing wrong, you will be more inclined to do it more often, imo.

It's not healthy to even have a strong hold on one state by one party. It creates weak leaders from that party, because they have no pushback to their possibly bad legislation since they get a free pass. That's what you get when you have only Reps in office in a state and have it on lockdown, or if it's Dems who have a state on lockdown from vote blue no matter who.

[Mori Chu]

Another senior moment.

[Nodack]

He sells it though. He says gibberish with conviction. Good enough.

[In2ition]

Oh, you want gibberish with conviction? I give you..

[TOO]

He's a wax doll. I hate them all, I'm moving to Guatemala.

[In2ition]

He's a wax doll. I hate them all, I'm moving to Guatemala.

I suggest El Salvador. They use the US dollar for currency, along with bitcoin, and it's now one of the safest countries in the world. It was absolutely lovely there when I visited over Thanksgiving.

[JeremyG]

Oh, you want gibberish with conviction? I give you..

“Don’t mess with the women of America unless you want to get in a bed with them”? Did I hear that right?

[Mori Chu]

Trump threatens Nikki Haley, saying she will be investigated if she doesn't drop out. Hmm.

[In2ition]

Trump threatens Nikki Haley, saying she will be investigated if she doesn't drop out. Hmm.

Come on, quit making stuff up. He didn't threaten Haley. He just said that Establishment(most likely Dems in this case) would put her into investigation immediately if she won. That's the corrupt POSs they are and they aren't super creative in their playbook. Bribe, blackmail, threaten, lawfare.

[Nodack]

Trump is just being Trump. He basically says Dems are evil and they would investigate Haley if she won for the bad stuff she did that he already knows about apparently. He tried to extort Ukraine to get dirt on Biden. Who would he extort to get his dirt on Haley?

[In2ition]

Trump is just being Trump. He basically says Dems are evil and they would investigate Haley if she won for the bad stuff she did that he already knows about apparently. He tried to extort Ukraine to get dirt on Biden. Who would he extort to get his dirt on Haley?

You have your history wrong again. It was Quid Pro Quo Joe that extorted Ukraine into firing the prosecutor looking into Burisma, who his son was "working" for. He said he was going to leave without giving them the billion dollars. Well son of a bitch...

[Mori Chu]

^ That has been thoroughly investigated and debunked. The prosecutor was removed because he did NOT pursue corruption. No corrupt tie has been found between Joe Biden and Burisma. The Biden/Ukraine "scandal" is a well established nothing burger.

[In2ition]

It wasn't debunked. He was looking into corruption, so the fake debunkers smeared his name to say he was corrupt. It's not a nothing burger, it's just that the Dems have a great network to cover themselves and have the media cover for their dirty deeds.