At this point, where is your level of care/concern for our team? In the present, as well as moving towards the future.

[Superbone]

I am at my lowest level of care since I became a fan in 1976.

I've only been a fan since 1989, but I think I feel the same way.

I still care, like Demo, they are ingrained in my life at this point but I'm just frustrated and this group has been hard to root for. They haven't shown that passion of most Suns teams through the years. It's just like seasons of life though. It will turn around at some point.

[Superbone]

I am at my lowest level of care since I became a fan in 1976.

I've only been a fan since 1989, but I think I feel the same way.

It was pretty bad during the 1987 drug scandal, but at least I had faith that Colangelo could clean things up eventually, and he did. Now, I don't have that same faith in the Suns leadership. I know Ishbia is willing to spend money, but I don't think he and Jones know how to spend it wisely.

Well, there is going to be a learning curve for Ishbia. Let's give him some time. His heart is in the right place.

[Superbone]

For those suggesting trading KD, how would you sell that to Booker? I think trading KD is a terrible idea. He won’t return nearly the same value we traded him for and you might just piss off the best player in franchise history.

I think you have to give this team another chance. Mostly because we don’t have much of a choice, but also because I think it’s clear that continuity matters.

Denver is probably the front runner, at least in the west, and they’ve had the same core together now for 3-4 years. Minnesota made a huge trade last year and they weren’t very good…they made no major changes and have all of a sudden been a 1 seed contender this year. Boston is consistently at the top of the East and have had Brown/Tatum together for 6-7 years now.

Our big 3 has still only played like 25ish games together. Yes you would have expected more than what they’ve shown. Still, giving up this early on what was a massive all-in swing would be very dumb. To do what, retool around Booker? There’s no world trading Booker or KD turns this team into a contender. Beal? Maybe, but you gotta get him on board with it and I don’t see an obvious candidate that would appease all 3 parties. I believe Beal moved his entire family to Phoenix, he still has the NTC, and he stuck it out in Washington a lot longer than most expected…I think he’s here for the long haul.

So we’ve got this season and the next two with Beal/Book/KD imo. The job is to move the other pieces around to put the best team you can together.

I appreciate yours and FF's level-headedness (in spite of you not witnessing the monstrosity in Milwaukee). Patience is probably the key. I never heard this two year plan FF mentioned but it kind of makes sense. A new team can't be expected to perform at the highest level right away. I think the team has improved since the trading deadline personnel-wise.

I'm curious how both of you feel about Vogel and if you want to keep that continuity or try somebody else. I like the guy but I don't understand how our team makes the same mistakes over and over. It feels like they're not listening to him. Either that or he's not a good coach.

[In2ition]

I am at my lowest level of care since I became a fan in 1976.

I've only been a fan since 1989, but I think I feel the same way.

It was pretty bad during the 1987 drug scandal, but at least I had faith that Colangelo could clean things up eventually, and he did. Now, I don't have that same faith in the Suns leadership. I know Ishbia is willing to spend money, but I don't think he and Jones know how to spend it wisely.

I was oblivous to the drug scandal at that time. There was no news of it that I remember in the state I was living in.

[Split T]

For those suggesting trading KD, how would you sell that to Booker? I think trading KD is a terrible idea. He won’t return nearly the same value we traded him for and you might just piss off the best player in franchise history.

I think you have to give this team another chance. Mostly because we don’t have much of a choice, but also because I think it’s clear that continuity matters.

Denver is probably the front runner, at least in the west, and they’ve had the same core together now for 3-4 years. Minnesota made a huge trade last year and they weren’t very good…they made no major changes and have all of a sudden been a 1 seed contender this year. Boston is consistently at the top of the East and have had Brown/Tatum together for 6-7 years now.

Our big 3 has still only played like 25ish games together. Yes you would have expected more than what they’ve shown. Still, giving up this early on what was a massive all-in swing would be very dumb. To do what, retool around Booker? There’s no world trading Booker or KD turns this team into a contender. Beal? Maybe, but you gotta get him on board with it and I don’t see an obvious candidate that would appease all 3 parties. I believe Beal moved his entire family to Phoenix, he still has the NTC, and he stuck it out in Washington a lot longer than most expected…I think he’s here for the long haul.

So we’ve got this season and the next two with Beal/Book/KD imo. The job is to move the other pieces around to put the best team you can together.

I appreciate yours and FF's level-headedness (in spite of you not witnessing the monstrosity in Milwaukee). Patience is probably the key. I never heard this two year plan FF mentioned but it kind of makes sense. A new team can't be expected to perform at the highest level right away. I think the team has improved since the trading deadline personnel-wise.

I'm curious how both of you feel about Vogel and if you want to keep that continuity or try somebody else. I like the guy but I don't understand how our team makes the same mistakes over and over. It feels like they're not listening to him. Either that or he's not a good coach.

Ya I might feel differently if I had seen it haha.

As for Vogel I would not be quick to move on. I’m not privy to the locker room dynamics so I do admit we might need to move on, but I don’t really like the idea of switching coaches and scheme up again. We’d almost be starting over again.

[LazarusLong]

I'm disappointed in what I see, but I'm not abandoning ship.
Let's see how the rest of the season plays out.
Then the brain trust, such as it it, can re-evaluate.

Vogel's reputation as a defensive coach was enhanced with the Lakers as he had players who could walk the talk.
That includes LeBron, AD, Caruso, and to a lesser extent JaVale McGee.
That's not the case with this team.
There is no stud perimeter defender. Okogie has his moments, but he's been erratic.
Nurk can guard the paint, but doesn't have the mobility to chase outside of 10 feet from the bucket.
Booker has shown he can't play D, distribute and score with consistent results.
Grayson is overmatched chasing perimeter players sometime 4-5 inches taller.
Durant plays like someone who's fatigued.

Essentially, you have a situation where you're trying to teach a pig to sing, and wind up annoying the pig.
I.e., Vogel's message is falling on deaf ears.

I think the Suns will run the top guys in the group back next season, but there will be some changes in the second unit.
Damion Lee might supplant Gordon at guard. Lee is a bit younger and longer. And he at least attempts to play defense.
Nassir Little, in keeping with his last name, has brought not much to the table.
I'm not sure Okogie is untouchable anymore with his sub 30% shooting from the arc.

So, after KD, Book, Beal, Nurk, Grayson and O'Neale, it's up for grabs.

It's a disappointing season, but it's nothing like the Watson-era cluster%&#&, or the late '80s Suns where Bone Scott, Mike Holton and Mike Sanders were the support cast for Larry Nance.

[Superbone]

Thanks for that, LL. It's always nice to have the grand elder weigh in. Seriously, I really appreciate that take and its wisdom from your many years of Suns fandom back even before mine and Bobster's begins.

[Charlie Smithy!]

I'm disappointed in what I see, but I'm not abandoning ship.
Let's see how the rest of the season plays out.
Then the brain trust, such as it it, can re-evaluate.

Vogel's reputation as a defensive coach was enhanced with the Lakers as he had players who could walk the talk.
That includes LeBron, AD, Caruso, and to a lesser extent JaVale McGee.
That's not the case with this team.
There is no stud perimeter defender. Okogie has his moments, but he's been erratic.
Nurk can guard the paint, but doesn't have the mobility to chase outside of 10 feet from the bucket.
Booker has shown he can't play D, distribute and score with consistent results.
Grayson is overmatched chasing perimeter players sometime 4-5 inches taller.
Durant plays like someone who's fatigued.

Essentially, you have a situation where you're trying to teach a pig to sing, and wind up annoying the pig.
I.e., Vogel's message is falling on deaf ears.

I think the Suns will run the top guys in the group back next season, but there will be some changes in the second unit.
Damion Lee might supplant Gordon at guard. Lee is a bit younger and longer. And he at least attempts to play defense.
Nassir Little, in keeping with his last name, has brought not much to the table.
I'm not sure Okogie is untouchable anymore with his sub 30% shooting from the arc.

So, after KD, Book, Beal, Nurk, Grayson and O'Neale, it's up for grabs.

It's a disappointing season, but it's nothing like the Watson-era cluster%&#&, or the late '80s Suns where Bone Scott, Mike Holton and Mike Sanders were the support cast for Larry Nance.

Bone Scott... what a name

I'm guessing he wasn't as good as Charlie or Dennis

[Superbone]

Bone Scott... what a name

I'm guessing he wasn't as good as Charlie or Dennis

That would be Alvin "Bone" Scott, youngster. He was a 7th round pick and very scrappy and a fan favorite.

[LazarusLong]

Thanks for that, LL. It's always nice to have the grand elder weigh in. Seriously, I really appreciate that take and its wisdom from your many years of Suns fandom back even before mine and Bobster's begins.

I'm also grooming my grandson for Suns' fandom ...

[Superbone]

Thanks for that, LL. It's always nice to have the grand elder weigh in. Seriously, I really appreciate that take and its wisdom from your many years of Suns fandom back even before mine and Bobster's begins.

I'm also grooming my grandson for Suns' fandom ...

Perfect! Maybe they can see that elusive Suns championship if we don't make it long enough and they'll think of us.

[Uncle_Gene]

I still believe in this team. I still believe playoff time that there's not a team in the Western conference that we can't get with. The defense has been up and down, but the bottom line is they really need a pure playmaking point guard. Isaiah Thomas is a true combo guard. He can truly make plays for others as well as score. Of course he'll be a liability on defense because he's only 5'9, but on the offensive end I believe he'll help tremendously.

Denver and Oklahoma City are my main concern. The Clippers when healthy might be a problem as well. The other teams out west I believe the Suns can beat in a seven game series.

The Suns have to be consistent and execute in the fourth quarter. No more fourth quarter malaise, got to get it done.

[iLLmatic]

Thanks for that, LL. It's always nice to have the grand elder weigh in. Seriously, I really appreciate that take and its wisdom from your many years of Suns fandom back even before mine and Bobster's begins.

I'm also grooming my grandson for Suns' fandom ...

Adorable kid. He doesn’t deserve the life time of disappointment the Suns will bring..lol

[Flagrant Fowl]

Disagree. Embrace it.

Fear is the mind killer.

[Kryptonic]

Disagree. Embrace it.

Fear is the mind killer.