Jimmy Butler trade rumors

[specialsauce]

Brown is far more impactful than Book right now

[Split T]

Brown is far more impactful than Book right now

Ya I mentioned the way Book is playing right now isn’t good…1tinsoldier isn’t just talking about this year though. He doesn’t think he ever was a top 2 guy.

[Split T]

We’re back!! Get me Jimmy, get at least to the 7 seed and we could maybe win a round or 2(or maybe just a game or 2).

[Cap]

Yeah, no more doubling down on this team. Just blow it up.

Sigh. Four picks and three swaps (plus Mikal, Cam, CP3, Camara and DA) for a team we want to blow up… but can’t because we’re saddled with bad contracts (and an NTC that might come into play if anybody’s willing to trade for Beal’s contract, which doesn’t seem likely right now).

Anybody still on the “Ishbia won’t let us miss the playoffs” wagon?

Are there really that many people who said that? And if they did I don’t think anyone is saying that now

It has been a common response over the past two years to my complaints about all the picks we traded away. The picks don’t matter much because they won’t be very good because our profligate owner won’t let us get that bad.

OK, nobody actually used the word “profligate.” More like “willing to spend” and “swinging for the fences,” which sound so much better.

Well I think it’s more just going off what he’s said. It didn’t seem like he had any intention of rebuilding…I still doubt he has any intention of that…

But the bigger point is no one is saying that anymore. If it was a competition, you won…no one still thinks we won’t be allowed to get bad. We are bad, we all know it.

Last week’s news thread: viewtopic.php?p=339996#p339996

[Superbone]

Let it go, Cap.

[Mori Chu]

fwiw Cap's right. People were repeatedly saying, "Ishbia won't allow this team to be bad / miss the playoffs." But it probably doesn't matter much now.

[ShelC]

It's all moot now. Beal's cookin off the bench Nurk isn't playing, and Oso and Dunn are getting starter's minutes.

[Split T]

fwiw Cap's right. People were repeatedly saying, "Ishbia won't allow this team to be bad / miss the playoffs." But it probably doesn't matter much now.

I can’t really speak for other people and I’m not sure I ever said those exact words…but the sentiment for me was that Ishbia would not be willing to tank. I still don’t think he is. We’re bad right now, but I fully expect another move to happen to push us into the playoffs so we can get swept by the Thunder.

But yes, I don’t think anyone expected us to be this bad. Weird for me to put it on the owner though. He spent the money…the front office put the team and coaching staff together. The players are the one’s failing on the court. My blame starts with the players…there’s no excuse for a team with KD/Book and solid depth to be this bad.

[Carno]

I think taking anything Ishbia says as gospel, especially right after acquiring the team, is pointless. It doesn't mean a thing. What matters are the actions. So far, all of the actions (trades, draft picks, FA signings) are arguably good moves, albeit gambles. Let's wait to see what the Suns actually do (or don't do) before criticizing. I don't see Ishbia and the Suns being content with a high payroll and 7-10 seed year after year (if that happens). It some point, he will concede the need to rebuild, and I expect he will do it intelligently. Making knee-jerk reactions to the current situation is for fans...not GMs and owners.

[Mori Chu]

fwiw Cap's right. People were repeatedly saying, "Ishbia won't allow this team to be bad / miss the playoffs." But it probably doesn't matter much now.

I can’t really speak for other people and I’m not sure I ever said those exact words…but the sentiment for me was that Ishbia would not be willing to tank. I still don’t think he is. We’re bad right now, but I fully expect another move to happen to push us into the playoffs so we can get swept by the Thunder.

But yes, I don’t think anyone expected us to be this bad. Weird for me to put it on the owner though. He spent the money…the front office put the team and coaching staff together. The players are the one’s failing on the court. My blame starts with the players…there’s no excuse for a team with KD/Book and solid depth to be this bad.

I don't put all the blame for our current predicament on the owner. But it is fairly well established that James Jones didn't want to do the KD-for-Mikal-and-Cam-and-a-decade's-worth-of-draft-picks trade, and that when Ishbia arrived, he found out that the trade was sitting on the table and almost immediately overruled Jones and pushed the trade through. And it seems like most of our current problems stem from that decision, and similar decisions that follow it, such as trading yet more picks and players for Beal making $50m/year for many years. James Jones didn't want to build our team that way or gamble all of our future assets to win now. He seems to have been right.

I would also give Jones and the FO most of the credit for our generally pretty-good-to-great drafting. They aren't perfect but they have found lots of nice players like Cam Johnson, Jalen Smith, Toumani Camera, Ryan Dunn, and Oso Iguodaro. I know that not all of these guys turned out to be BPA with benefit of hindsight, but James Jones does seem pretty good at taking medium-quality draft picks (e.g. mid to late 1st round) and finding actual players who can contribute. He has a good eye for finding high character guys, guys who play good defense, guys who shoot well, hard workers, etc.

So when I look at butchered moves and transactions we have made over the past 2-3 years, mostly I see the impulsiveness that is much more Mat Ishbia's hallmark and not at all James Jones's.

[ShelC]

Fans don't like James Jones for missing on Haliburton so he'll never get credit for anything but will take the blame for everything.

[Kryptonic]

fwiw Cap's right. People were repeatedly saying, "Ishbia won't allow this team to be bad / miss the playoffs." But it probably doesn't matter much now.

I can’t really speak for other people and I’m not sure I ever said those exact words…but the sentiment for me was that Ishbia would not be willing to tank. I still don’t think he is. We’re bad right now, but I fully expect another move to happen to push us into the playoffs so we can get swept by the Thunder.

But yes, I don’t think anyone expected us to be this bad. Weird for me to put it on the owner though. He spent the money…the front office put the team and coaching staff together. The players are the one’s failing on the court. My blame starts with the players…there’s no excuse for a team with KD/Book and solid depth to be this bad.

I don't put all the blame for our current predicament on the owner. But it is fairly well established that James Jones didn't want to do the KD-for-Mikal-and-Cam-and-a-decade's-worth-of-draft-picks trade, and that when Ishbia arrived, he found out that the trade was sitting on the table and almost immediately overruled Jones and pushed the trade through. And it seems like most of our current problems stem from that decision, and similar decisions that follow it, such as trading yet more picks and players for Beal making $50m/year for many years. James Jones didn't want to build our team that way or gamble all of our future assets to win now. He seems to have been right.

I would also give Jones and the FO most of the credit for our generally pretty-good-to-great drafting. They aren't perfect but they have found lots of nice players like Cam Johnson, Jalen Smith, Toumani Camera, Ryan Dunn, and Oso Iguodaro. I know that not all of these guys turned out to be BPA with benefit of hindsight, but James Jones does seem pretty good at taking medium-quality draft picks (e.g. mid to late 1st round) and finding actual players who can contribute. He has a good eye for finding high character guys, guys who play good defense, guys who shoot well, hard workers, etc.

So when I look at butchered moves and transactions we have made over the past 2-3 years, mostly I see the impulsiveness that is much more Mat Ishbia's hallmark and not at all James Jones's.

Well said.... Also, despite any complaining about Ishbia I may do, I'll never question is ambition and desire to make us a great franchise and he generally seems like a great dude that would be fun to get a beer with. I love his passion for the team and can completely understand wanting to get in there and go "guns blazing".

You're also dead on with James Jones... If anyone has tried to probably keep us more level minded, it's him. He's also had some pretty solid draft picks and look forward to that only getting better with the scouting team they formed last year; not to mention a G League affiliate to work with.

[Kryptonic]

Fans don't like James Jones for missing on Haliburton so he'll never get credit for anything but will take the blame for everything.

Yea, it's a dead horse we like to beat for sure... He could also get crap for not drafting Luka but we all know that Ayton was more of the team need at the time.

[ShelC]

McD was GM at the time too and Sarver made the call on Ayton.

[Mori Chu]

The thing to start mentally preparing for is, there's nearly 100% likelihood that James Jones is going to get fired in the next 6-12 months. Somebody is going to have to take the blame for our mishaps, and Ishbia can't fire himself, and he already fired one coach last year.

And then Ishbia is probably going to bring in his good old friend, Isiah Thomas, as our new GM. That will be the next big milestone in the enshittification of the Phoenix Suns.

[AmareIsGod]

[specialsauce]

fwiw Cap's right. People were repeatedly saying, "Ishbia won't allow this team to be bad / miss the playoffs." But it probably doesn't matter much now.

I can’t really speak for other people and I’m not sure I ever said those exact words…but the sentiment for me was that Ishbia would not be willing to tank. I still don’t think he is. We’re bad right now, but I fully expect another move to happen to push us into the playoffs so we can get swept by the Thunder.

But yes, I don’t think anyone expected us to be this bad. Weird for me to put it on the owner though. He spent the money…the front office put the team and coaching staff together. The players are the one’s failing on the court. My blame starts with the players…there’s no excuse for a team with KD/Book and solid depth to be this bad.

Exactly.

[In2ition]

The thing to start mentally preparing for is, there's nearly 100% likelihood that James Jones is going to get fired in the next 6-12 months. Somebody is going to have to take the blame for our mishaps, and Ishbia can't fire himself, and he already fired one coach last year.

And then Ishbia is probably going to bring in his good old friend, Isiah Thomas, as our new GM. That will be the next big milestone in the enshittification of the Phoenix Suns.

If he decides to blow it up, I would hope he would be smart enough to try everything in his power to pull Presti out of OKC.

[Split T]

fwiw Cap's right. People were repeatedly saying, "Ishbia won't allow this team to be bad / miss the playoffs." But it probably doesn't matter much now.

I can’t really speak for other people and I’m not sure I ever said those exact words…but the sentiment for me was that Ishbia would not be willing to tank. I still don’t think he is. We’re bad right now, but I fully expect another move to happen to push us into the playoffs so we can get swept by the Thunder.

But yes, I don’t think anyone expected us to be this bad. Weird for me to put it on the owner though. He spent the money…the front office put the team and coaching staff together. The players are the one’s failing on the court. My blame starts with the players…there’s no excuse for a team with KD/Book and solid depth to be this bad.

I don't put all the blame for our current predicament on the owner. But it is fairly well established that James Jones didn't want to do the KD-for-Mikal-and-Cam-and-a-decade's-worth-of-draft-picks trade, and that when Ishbia arrived, he found out that the trade was sitting on the table and almost immediately overruled Jones and pushed the trade through. And it seems like most of our current problems stem from that decision, and similar decisions that follow it, such as trading yet more picks and players for Beal making $50m/year for many years. James Jones didn't want to build our team that way or gamble all of our future assets to win now. He seems to have been right.

I would also give Jones and the FO most of the credit for our generally pretty-good-to-great drafting. They aren't perfect but they have found lots of nice players like Cam Johnson, Jalen Smith, Toumani Camera, Ryan Dunn, and Oso Iguodaro. I know that not all of these guys turned out to be BPA with benefit of hindsight, but James Jones does seem pretty good at taking medium-quality draft picks (e.g. mid to late 1st round) and finding actual players who can contribute. He has a good eye for finding high character guys, guys who play good defense, guys who shoot well, hard workers, etc.

So when I look at butchered moves and transactions we have made over the past 2-3 years, mostly I see the impulsiveness that is much more Mat Ishbia's hallmark and not at all James Jones's.

I wasn’t trying to blame James Jones either…I blame the players

[ShadowHawke]

The thing to start mentally preparing for is, there's nearly 100% likelihood that James Jones is going to get fired in the next 6-12 months. Somebody is going to have to take the blame for our mishaps, and Ishbia can't fire himself, and he already fired one coach last year.

And then Ishbia is probably going to bring in his good old friend, Isiah Thomas, as our new GM. That will be the next big milestone in the enshittification of the Phoenix Suns.

In that case we need to get the Mailman to recreate his greatest non basketball move.