Around the NBA: Week 18 (2/17 - 2/23)

[Cap]

We have the pieces to trade back for the camera

Nuh uh. Nurk’s gone.

[JeremyG]

I mean at this point both Ayton and Camara would probably be starting for us and contributing positively. So I think Jeremy has been totally vindicated and the trade was a failure for us.

Nah…only Camara

You don't think even with all his frustrations, Ayton is a better player than Richards?

People seem to forget how good he was. Here are his per 36 stats after 2021:

‘21-‘22: 21.0 points, 12.5 rebounds, 65.6 TS%

‘22-‘23: 21.3 points, 11.8 rebounds, 61.7 TS%

Here are the all-time Suns leaders in Win Shares Per 48 Minutes:

1.	Charles Barkley*	.210
2.	Chris Paul	.190
3.	Amar'e Stoudemire	.184
4.	Kevin Johnson	.182
5.	Shawn Marion	.179
6.	Steve Nash*	.174
7.	Paul Westphal*	.174
8.	Antonio McDyess	.164
9.	Larry Nance	.164
10.	Deandre Ayton	.160

Anyone notice who’s not on that list?

[SunsRIt]

I mean at this point both Ayton and Camara would probably be starting for us and contributing positively. So I think Jeremy has been totally vindicated and the trade was a failure for us.

Nah…only Camara

You don't think even with all his frustrations, Ayton is a better player than Richards?

People seem to forget how good he was. Here are his per 36 stats after 2021:

‘21-‘22: 21.0 points, 12.5 rebounds, 65.6 TS%

‘22-‘23: 21.3 points, 11.8 rebounds, 61.7 TS%

Here are the all-time Suns leaders in Win Shares Per 48 Minutes:

1.	Charles Barkley*	.210
2.	Chris Paul	.190
3.	Amar'e Stoudemire	.184
4.	Kevin Johnson	.182
5.	Shawn Marion	.179
6.	Steve Nash*	.174
7.	Paul Westphal*	.174
8.	Antonio McDyess	.164
9.	Larry Nance	.164
10.	Deandre Ayton	.160

Anyone notice who’s not on that list?

And you seem to forget how bad he was.

[TOO]

Why do people use per 36 for stuff if they don't play 36? Seems like a silly way to inflate value.

[Split T]

Now do the 22-23 playoffs

[JeremyG]

Why do people use per 36 for stuff if they don't play 36? Seems like a silly way to inflate value.

Because he should have been playing 36 and in the games he did his stats were usually even better, as I’ve posted before.

[JeremyG]

Now do the 22-23 playoffs

He helped us get past a tough Clippers team, helped us tie the eventual champion Nuggets at 2-2, then had a tough injury the next game, while still playing through it and being heavily criticized for not giving enough effort in game 5 and missing game 6 when he couldn’t even catch his breath.

[TOO]

Why do people use per 36 for stuff if they don't play 36? Seems like a silly way to inflate value.

Because he should have been playing 36 and in the games he did his stats were usually even better, as I’ve posted before.

There are only 2 C in the league that play that many, both of them operate as offensive hubs for their teams.

[JeremyG]

Why do people use per 36 for stuff if they don't play 36? Seems like a silly way to inflate value.

Because he should have been playing 36 and in the games he did his stats were usually even better, as I’ve posted before.

There are only 2 C in the league that play that many, both of them operate as offensive hubs for their teams.

Here are his stats in the 16 games that he played between 35-40 minutes his final Suns season (2022-2023, the one where he sucked so bad everyone wanted him gone):

22.8 ppg
.609 FG%
11.4 rpg
2.1 apg

[Split T]

Now do the 22-23 playoffs

He helped us get past a tough Clippers team, helped us tie the eventual champion Nuggets at 2-2, then had a tough injury the next game, while still playing through it and being heavily criticized for not giving enough effort in game 5 and missing game 6 when he couldn’t even catch his breath.

I wanted the stats

[Split T]

Why do people use per 36 for stuff if they don't play 36? Seems like a silly way to inflate value.

Because he should have been playing 36 and in the games he did his stats were usually even better, as I’ve posted before.

There are only 2 C in the league that play that many, both of them operate as offensive hubs for their teams.

Here are his stats in the 16 games that he played between 35-40 minutes his final Suns season (2022-2023, the one where he sucked so bad everyone wanted him gone):

22.8 ppg
.609 FG%
11.4 rpg
2.1 apg

The playoffs is when he sucked

[Carno]

Are we really rehashing this AGAIN?

[Cap]

We should never have closed the thread. The point was to keep the issue from infecting other threads and it was working.

[TOO]

It's one guy who won't let it die.

[Cap]

Whatever. The thread was working. Better than coming down hard on one of our contributing members. Let’s reopen it and let Jeremy post as much as he want about Ayton… in that one thread. He has shown he’s willing to cooperate when he’s given that way to do it.

[Mori Chu]

I find that I don't mind the DA discourse as much this go-around. For one thing, time and distance make me less emotional about him. Second, now that he has been somewhat vindicated by the aftermath of the trade, I figure it's more worthy of discussion. A year or so ago it felt like a settled issue. Now, not so much. There's new status to discuss, so it is not so bad to discuss it.

Of course, nobody is required to participate in any such talk. You all do have the power to scroll past a message and not engage with it.

[JeremyG]

Besides, I’m not the one bringing up DA. If someone else does, I may respond. And I’ve only done that some of the time. Funny how often people bring him up still.

[Mori Chu]

We still bring up Joe Johnson. Buckle up.

[JeremyG]

True. I was going to bring him up the other day, actually. Sort of the opposite of Ishbia’s new owner syndrome. But still, inexperience/arrogance probably had almost as much to due with Sarver’s mistake in the fall of 2004 as his overall cheapness. IOW, we doomed the SSOL team before it even got started.

We’ve never been patient enough with keeping our title contenders intact. Even Colangelo in 1995 (Majerle) and Kerr/Sarver in 2008 (Marion).