Game Day: Raptors (24-44) @ Suns (31-37), Mon 3/17/25

[Superbone]

Meh, I mean he’s definitely a problem, but I don’t really agree with that video. He shoots more 3s than KD. He gets to the rim more than Book and KD…in fact the area of the court he uses the least is the midrange, so no he doesn’t just operate in the same areas as Book and KD(especially not KD).

He’s not Okogie, Dunn, or Oso, but he tries as hard as Book and KD. He’s just an offensive player and has always been an offensive player. Would it be great if he had Okogie’s level of hustle? Of course, but he’s never been that player and to expect it at 31 is crazy. He was a bad fit. That’s all.

Yup, and fragile as all heck. Suns' fault for making the move. All the info you just gave was known before the Suns acquired him. And they also knew that he pretty much duplicated what Book brings to the table. Suns fault for thinking the redundancy was a good idea at that money and with a NTC and with his injury history. Think through the implications, they did not.

[Superbone]

And as much as a Book fan as I am, I still get infuriated when he doesn't bother at least running at a wide open three point shooter. He often just turns his back on him and hopes for a missed wide-open three. I did finally see him making this effort last night.

[ShelC]

I think he's more of a Jason Terry type who's been regarded as a #1 option/max player. He's not really good enough to be a #1 but doesn't have the game or mindset to be a #2. He a smaller SG who's best scoring off the dribble and in the midrange so the game has changed around him.

Early in his career, Terry was a starting PG in Atlanta and Dallas but those teams strugged building around his offensive skills. It wasn't until he was 30 that he really embraced the 6th man SG role and being a spot starter when needed. That may be Beal's path to extending his career and helping a team win.

[specialsauce]

Those are such straw man arguments that I won't even bother.

At least you get it right at the end:

"It's fine if that's what Beal wants and I'd probably do the same in his position."

Cop out!

#Superboneunbothered

#onlybotheredpeoplesaytheyreunbothered

[Split T]

It’s hard for me to even blame the suns for the move because I was all-in on it when it happened as well. I think the problem was the evaluation of the Book/KD duo. We saw what that duo did in games 3 and 4 against Denver with Landry Shamet as the other starting backcourt member and thought, ya of course Bradley Beal is an improvement. The problem though is those might’ve been the two best games we’ve seen from the Booker/KD duo and have proven to be outliers, not something to expect. Beal is better than Shamet and we would be awesome right now if Book/KD were playing every game like games 3 and 4…but they almost never do.

It’s easy to see in hindsight that we needed defense, size, and athleticism around that duo, but truth is we had a very limited sample size of them playing together when we went all in on offense/shot creation.

[TOO]

I think he's more of a Jason Terry type who's been regarded as a #1 option/max player. He's not really good enough to be a #1 but doesn't have the game or mindset to be a #2. He a smaller SG who's best scoring off the dribble and in the midrange so the game has changed around him.

Early in his career, Terry was a starting PG in Atlanta and Dallas but those teams strugged building around his offensive skills. It wasn't until he was 30 that he really embraced the 6th man SG role and being a spot starter when needed. That may be Beal's path to extending his career and helping a team win.

Are you comparing Brad Beal to a career 4th guy/6th man? That's pretty wild.

[ShelC]

I'm a wild kinda guy.

[ShadowHawke]

I mean, this shouldn't even be said at this late stage of the season but maybe, just maybe the light bulb going off in everyone's head



Like this some Captain Obvious stuff lol but to be continued
Cleverly saying we don't bring the energy every night is a real smh

"I'm starting with the man in the mirror (oh yeah)
I'm asking him to change his ways (better change)"

[Split T]

I tried to go back and see if I could find out our thoughts on the team before the Beal trade…most of the talk seemed centered around potential Ayton trades and whether or not we should waive and stretch CP3. Here’s some interesting quotes:

Nurkic would be useful in the regular season, but a guy I’m not sure could play in the playoffs. He’d definitely get played off against some teams. But I like Jerami Grant. He’d be perfect between Book/KD

In response to a potential Ayton for Grant/Nurk trade. Just wanted to let people know I had Nurk pegged way before he came to us haha.

Another Ayton trade idea:

I would jump all over THJ/Green/10th pick

Someone said they were glad I wasn’t the GM when discussing this option…just imagine if we ended up with Lively.

Kuzma at 20 plus Gafford for Ayton would work, but we’d have to cut salary to stay under the hard cap so it almost definitely means we waive and stretch CP3

Gafford and Kuzma would have been much better than Nurk.

Prophetic words from Informer:

One problem I would have with this is that I don't know how a Beal-Booker-Durant super team is the kind of team you want Vogel to coach? I mean I get it from the sense that we essentially wouldn't have an offense; it would just be each of those guys taking turns going one on one. But does that trio and the two fillers that will be on the court with them, defend on the level that Vogel needs in order for his defense to be effective?

Also I wont quote it because there was a tweet attached, but the first mention of Beal in the thread I read was from Mori and he questioned why we’d want to have Beal/Book/KD together taking up the entire cap…so props to Mori.

A lot of talk about Kyrie and Harden at the time. We were definitely trying to add a 3rd star…ended up with the wrong one.

[Mori Chu]

Thanks for the archaeological expedition, Split. Harden might have actually been good here, horrid defense aside, because he'd have been a facilitator on a team that badly needed one.

[AmareIsGod]

It’s hard for me to even blame the suns for the move because I was all-in on it when it happened as well. I think the problem was the evaluation of the Book/KD duo. We saw what that duo did in games 3 and 4 against Denver with Landry Shamet as the other starting backcourt member and thought, ya of course Bradley Beal is an improvement. The problem though is those might’ve been the two best games we’ve seen from the Booker/KD duo and have proven to be outliers, not something to expect. Beal is better than Shamet and we would be awesome right now if Book/KD were playing every game like games 3 and 4…but they almost never do.

It’s easy to see in hindsight that we needed defense, size, and athleticism around that duo, but truth is we had a very limited sample size of them playing together when we went all in on offense/shot creation.

I was never in on it. Tried hard to find silver linings of optimism at times but then he'd get hurt.

[Bucktastic365]

I don't think Oso is getting enough credit for his impact.

His defense has been outstanding. He can guard 1-5, is quick, has great foot work, and covers the lob. On guards on the perimeter, he's close enough to defend the 3 but also quick enough to cover drives. He's not a great rebounder and can't defend the big centers like Jokic. However, everywhere else he makes a huge impact. He has a great defensive, bent-knee stance; He doesn't stand up straight like most centers do on the perimeter.

His offensive impact may be less noticeable but not less impactful. His screens, specifically his foot work and positioning after the screen is outstanding. If the ballhandler doesn't gain an advantage from the screen, he rescreens until eventually an advantage is created and then finds the right space for the pass. His decision making after getting the pass is outstanding where he usually makes a quick pass to an open shooter or drives if open. I can't say enough about how a bland, lifeless offense immediately turns into a fast-paced, ball-moving, properly spaced offense when he is in the game.

It's no coincidence that after losing the 1st, the game broke open for the Suns when Oso came in at the beginning of the 2nd. This has been a trend for the last several games where he has been given minutes. I've been pleading for Bud to take out Nick and Plumlee when it's obvious early on that they lack effort (Nick) or are getting beat athletically (Plumlee). Last night, Bud took Nick out very early in the 3rd and rode Oso until they were up by 40 in the fourth.

I don't know that he is a starter, but he can jump start a lifeless team and should be getting way more minutes than he's been getting. The team just plays faster on both offense and defense when he is in there.

The biggest question for me is how can we minimize/maximize his offense. The screening, passing, floater in the lane are his strengths but we know the jumper is broken. So he needs to be a heavy PnR/DHO big but not a pick and pop/C+S big. He is undersized and isn't a great rebounder which will limit him as well, but he could be a great first big off the bench ala Bobby Portis or Naz Reid. Need a coach who can utilize him properly and hide his weaknesses.

I told y'all! Lol
WE all complained that we wanted "verterans" when we had the Lens, and Jackson's, and Benders. Vets don't equal wins unless the blend is correct.

[Bucktastic365]

I don't think Oso is getting enough credit for his impact.

His defense has been outstanding. He can guard 1-5, is quick, has great foot work, and covers the lob. On guards on the perimeter, he's close enough to defend the 3 but also quick enough to cover drives. He's not a great rebounder and can't defend the big centers like Jokic. However, everywhere else he makes a huge impact. He has a great defensive, bent-knee stance; He doesn't stand up straight like most centers do on the perimeter.

His offensive impact may be less noticeable but not less impactful. His screens, specifically his foot work and positioning after the screen is outstanding. If the ballhandler doesn't gain an advantage from the screen, he rescreens until eventually an advantage is created and then finds the right space for the pass. His decision making after getting the pass is outstanding where he usually makes a quick pass to an open shooter or drives if open. I can't say enough about how a bland, lifeless offense immediately turns into a fast-paced, ball-moving, properly spaced offense when he is in the game.

It's no coincidence that after losing the 1st, the game broke open for the Suns when Oso came in at the beginning of the 2nd. This has been a trend for the last several games where he has been given minutes. I've been pleading for Bud to take out Nick and Plumlee when it's obvious early on that they lack effort (Nick) or are getting beat athletically (Plumlee). Last night, Bud took Nick out very early in the 3rd and rode Oso until they were up by 40 in the fourth.

I don't know that he is a starter, but he can jump start a lifeless team and should be getting way more minutes than he's been getting. The team just plays faster on both offense and defense when he is in there.

The biggest question for me is how can we minimize/maximize his offense. The screening, passing, floater in the lane are his strengths but we know the jumper is broken. So he needs to be a heavy PnR/DHO big but not a pick and pop/C+S big. He is undersized and isn't a great rebounder which will limit him as well, but he could be a great first big off the bench ala Bobby Portis or Naz Reid. Need a coach who can utilize him properly and hide his weaknesses.

He's a non-3-shooting Draymond; minus the asshole

[Bucktastic365]

Meh, I mean he’s definitely a problem, but I don’t really agree with that video. He shoots more 3s than KD. He gets to the rim more than Book and KD…in fact the area of the court he uses the least is the midrange, so no he doesn’t just operate in the same areas as Book and KD(especially not KD).

He’s not Okogie, Dunn, or Oso, but he tries as hard as Book and KD. He’s just an offensive player and has always been an offensive player. Would it be great if he had Okogie’s level of hustle? Of course, but he’s never been that player and to expect it at 31 is crazy. He was a bad fit. That’s all.

Yup, and fragile as all heck. Suns' fault for making the move. All the info you just gave was known before the Suns acquired him. And they also knew that he pretty much duplicated what Book brings to the table. Suns fault for thinking the redundancy was a good idea at that money and with a NTC and with his injury history. Think through the implications, they did not.

Literally watch every drive that he does; it's basically a split in order to get his drive.

That is the downside to "athleticism"

[Split T]

It’s hard for me to even blame the suns for the move because I was all-in on it when it happened as well. I think the problem was the evaluation of the Book/KD duo. We saw what that duo did in games 3 and 4 against Denver with Landry Shamet as the other starting backcourt member and thought, ya of course Bradley Beal is an improvement. The problem though is those might’ve been the two best games we’ve seen from the Booker/KD duo and have proven to be outliers, not something to expect. Beal is better than Shamet and we would be awesome right now if Book/KD were playing every game like games 3 and 4…but they almost never do.

It’s easy to see in hindsight that we needed defense, size, and athleticism around that duo, but truth is we had a very limited sample size of them playing together when we went all in on offense/shot creation.

I was never in on it. Tried hard to find silver linings of optimism at times but then he'd get hurt.

True, you were always against it…I do remember that

[Kryptonic]

It’s hard for me to even blame the suns for the move because I was all-in on it when it happened as well. I think the problem was the evaluation of the Book/KD duo. We saw what that duo did in games 3 and 4 against Denver with Landry Shamet as the other starting backcourt member and thought, ya of course Bradley Beal is an improvement. The problem though is those might’ve been the two best games we’ve seen from the Booker/KD duo and have proven to be outliers, not something to expect. Beal is better than Shamet and we would be awesome right now if Book/KD were playing every game like games 3 and 4…but they almost never do.

It’s easy to see in hindsight that we needed defense, size, and athleticism around that duo, but truth is we had a very limited sample size of them playing together when we went all in on offense/shot creation.

I was never in on it. Tried hard to find silver linings of optimism at times but then he'd get hurt.

True, you were always against it…I do remember that

AIGs just bitter we traded shamet still.

[TOO]

I don't think Oso is getting enough credit for his impact.

His defense has been outstanding. He can guard 1-5, is quick, has great foot work, and covers the lob. On guards on the perimeter, he's close enough to defend the 3 but also quick enough to cover drives. He's not a great rebounder and can't defend the big centers like Jokic. However, everywhere else he makes a huge impact. He has a great defensive, bent-knee stance; He doesn't stand up straight like most centers do on the perimeter.

His offensive impact may be less noticeable but not less impactful. His screens, specifically his foot work and positioning after the screen is outstanding. If the ballhandler doesn't gain an advantage from the screen, he rescreens until eventually an advantage is created and then finds the right space for the pass. His decision making after getting the pass is outstanding where he usually makes a quick pass to an open shooter or drives if open. I can't say enough about how a bland, lifeless offense immediately turns into a fast-paced, ball-moving, properly spaced offense when he is in the game.

It's no coincidence that after losing the 1st, the game broke open for the Suns when Oso came in at the beginning of the 2nd. This has been a trend for the last several games where he has been given minutes. I've been pleading for Bud to take out Nick and Plumlee when it's obvious early on that they lack effort (Nick) or are getting beat athletically (Plumlee). Last night, Bud took Nick out very early in the 3rd and rode Oso until they were up by 40 in the fourth.

I don't know that he is a starter, but he can jump start a lifeless team and should be getting way more minutes than he's been getting. The team just plays faster on both offense and defense when he is in there.

The biggest question for me is how can we minimize/maximize his offense. The screening, passing, floater in the lane are his strengths but we know the jumper is broken. So he needs to be a heavy PnR/DHO big but not a pick and pop/C+S big. He is undersized and isn't a great rebounder which will limit him as well, but he could be a great first big off the bench ala Bobby Portis or Naz Reid. Need a coach who can utilize him properly and hide his weaknesses.

He's a non-3-shooting Draymond; minus the asshole

How does he poop?