Are The Suns Cursed? Book it!

[1tinsoldier]

You're entitled to your opinion, 1tin. And I do agree that Book has some significant flaws as a player. But you're not likely to persuade me if you say "you're smarter than that" and that I'm "brainwashed" and other such things.

aren't you the admin here? You know the effect of calling someone who's trying to make a point a "troll"

i'm not trying to persuade you personally. i'm pissed that i've got to do all the work critiquing the "franchise player's" value to the team while other posters are allowed to critique me personally without refuting the points i'm making

calling me the troll in this thread while other's try to "burn it down" is exasperating. I started this thread. If it offends anyone's Booker sensibilities they don't have to read it.

I've been a forum admin for over 10 years. I'm familiar with the bullying technique that posters use to silence those they disagree with and who don't follow the herd mentality.

[1tinsoldier]

It’s like running out and telling everyone the sky’s blue…. No shit.

the question is not what color the sky is? It's who's ass the Suns rises and sets on?

[Superbone]

You're entitled to your opinion, 1tin. And I do agree that Book has some significant flaws as a player. But you're not likely to persuade me if you say "you're smarter than that" and that I'm "brainwashed" and other such things.

I have a book suggestion for you, tin. It's called How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie. Great book!

[O_Gardino]

► Show Spoiler

Not really my argument, but I want to chip in because I see both sides. I hope this is constructive.

Tin, it's not your take on Booker that people don't get. It's your strong emotions around the issue.

He's not good in end-game situations? We know.
He's not a great defender? We know.
He's not an efficient 3pt shooter? We know.
Other teams' starters are kicking our butts? We know.

It's not the facts people are criticizing, and I didn't feel like any posters intended to criticize you personally, but I personally don't get why you seem so fixated on Booker. It seems like you are super fixated on Booker's flaws when there are plenty of good things that Bookers does, and plenty of bad things happening elsewhere on the court and in the front office. Book is not the Answer To All Problems, but he isn't the cause of them all either.

My brother in Talos, Booker is always going to have those flaws. And there will always be fans who appreciate the good things he does despite the bad. Why try to convince everyone to hate him?

thank you Gardino, for posting your take rather than just another personal criticism. My emotion is based on the irrational emotion of others who get bent out of shape when i'm just making a logical case of why this team needs to get out of the Booker era/error.

the more they ignore my points to point the finger at me, bends me out of shape. But i don't need antagonism to get me worked up about this situation. I spent 300 hours this year watching this poor product. The game could and should be more competitive and entertaining

i enjoyed the Kevin Johnson era. 50+ wins per season making the playoffs.f
i enjoyed the Barkley era. Wins and playoff wins.
i enjoyed the Jason Kidd era. Wins, playoffs, good defense.
i enjoyed Steve Nash era. Ditto
i enjoyed the CP3 era, though it was only 2 years.
the other 8 of the last 10 have been the worst basketball in Suns history

THAT'S the Booker era

so, tell me Gardino. Why aren't you pissed? You admitted to Booker's flaws. Why do we have to build around one flawed franchise player and pay him like one of the best player's/winners in the world?

if everyone is still mesmerized by his occasional offensive performances, despite poor defense and an awful record and not being among the 24 picked All Stars, why not keep Kevin Durant instead who is a better, more consistent player, and still ranked in the top 10 in the league?

until someone even tries to explain that logic to me, i'm going to keep being motivated to demonstrate the illogic of it

I am pissed at how the team is built. I saw the -20 in the box score, and thought something similar to you. We were +10 when Book sat because our role players are better than the other team's role players. That's been the case most of the year, and I certainly don't think we can keep the core together.

But Book isn't the GM. IMO, he gets the most out of his own talent, and that's all I can ask of him. Would I trade him for a good offer? Yeah. But I do see the appeal of keeping a guy we drafted. A home-grown "star", especially one who is respected around the league for his work ethic and competitiveness, is a way for fans to connect to the team.

Durrant, on the other hand, is older, is not a guy that people are excited to play for, is not great in the locker room, and absolutely has not been the 1A option who should take the pressure off of Booker. I don't think many fans are attached to him, and we certainly don't have time to rebuild around him before he's done.

[Split T]

The logic in keeping Booker over KD is simply age.

OG said it better than I can, so I won’t go much into it, but we know his flaws. People are going to tune you out if you only bring up the flaws and ignore the good. It hurts your credibility…and it goes both ways…if someone is unable to see any flaws in a player and makes excuses for everything, it also makes it hard to take them seriously.

I don’t personally have a problem if someone thinks we need to move on from Booker. I’d be fine if we did…the team is broken right now..but the blaming of Book is excessive. And to not give Book any credit for the “CP3 era” is low. So is blaming him for the McD era. He deserves criticism for how this team with KD failed, I don’t think anyone would say otherwise…it’s just excessive.

[Mori Chu]

You're entitled to your opinion, 1tin. And I do agree that Book has some significant flaws as a player. But you're not likely to persuade me if you say "you're smarter than that" and that I'm "brainwashed" and other such things.

aren't you the admin here? You know the effect of calling someone who's trying to make a point a "troll"

(...)

I've been a forum admin for over 10 years. I'm familiar with the bullying technique that posters use to silence those they disagree with and who don't follow the herd mentality.

Friend, you and others here should please feel free to say whatever you like. I do not engage in silencing other posters here; almost never in the many years of existence of this site have I ever been forced to delete a post or ban a user. Even though I do not entirely agree with your posts, I certainly welcome them here and support you speaking your mind. Besides, if my insults and bullying were able to drive a user away, I'd have easily gotten rid of specialsauce by now!

[1tinsoldier]

IMO, he gets the most out of his own talent, and that's all I can ask of him. Would I trade him for a good offer? Yeah. But I do see the appeal of keeping a guy we drafted. A home-grown "star", especially one who is respected around the league for his work ethic and competitiveness, is a way for fans to connect to the team.

Durrant, on the other hand, is older, is not a guy that people are excited to play for, is not great in the locker room, and absolutely has not been the 1A option who should take the pressure off of Booker. I don't think many fans are attached to him, and we certainly don't have time to rebuild around him before he's done.

but like every other team in the league, we have asked for more from Barkley, Nash (also home grown) (both winners and MVP's) and moved on when they no longer served our competitive purpose. We absolutely must "ask for more" from a player whose salary is going to restrict us building around him with enough talent to compete. We'd actually have to afford 2 players who are better than him.

that "fans are attached to him" is an unproductive mechanism created by the local media's hype and it is not shared by the rest of the league or fans. In fact, it's counter productive. It gives him a soft cushion after each disaster of a season and it prevents the fans from enjoying real competition long into the playoffs. The fans who "love" Booker would LOVE winning and a championship shot more.

as for Booker's age being a plus, that depends on his performance and salary. If his performance doesn't cut it and his salary is prohibitive his longevity, as in this thread's title, is a "Curse."

let's take a closer look after this season is over

[1tinsoldier]

The logic in keeping Booker over KD is simply age.

OG said it better than I can, so I won’t go much into it, but we know his flaws. People are going to tune you out if you only bring up the flaws and ignore the good. It hurts your credibility…and it goes both ways…if someone is unable to see any flaws in a player and makes excuses for everything, it also makes it hard to take them seriously.

I don’t personally have a problem if someone thinks we need to move on from Booker. I’d be fine if we did…the team is broken right now..but the blaming of Book is excessive. And to not give Book any credit for the “CP3 era” is low. So is blaming him for the McD era. He deserves criticism for how this team with KD failed, I don’t think anyone would say otherwise…it’s just excessive.

i don't see the purpose of me redundantly pointing out his plus points when that is what this forum, Arizona Sports radio and TV does non-stop with full bias and allowances for this town's home-grown star.

regarding not crediting him for the CP3 era -- it is not "low," it's consistent. I credited KJ for his era as a leader, Barkley for his era as the leader, etc.. without co-crediting the unquestionable value of key teammates. CP3 was the team's leader (and a top league MVP candidate) those 2 years.

as i said in the prior post, age is Booker's plus factor only if a case can be made that his offensive and DEFENSIVE performance stands to outweigh his prohibitive salary that will likely be the most expensive in the NBA next season (according to Bickley).

let's explore further after the season ends

[Split T]

The logic in keeping Booker over KD is simply age.

OG said it better than I can, so I won’t go much into it, but we know his flaws. People are going to tune you out if you only bring up the flaws and ignore the good. It hurts your credibility…and it goes both ways…if someone is unable to see any flaws in a player and makes excuses for everything, it also makes it hard to take them seriously.

I don’t personally have a problem if someone thinks we need to move on from Booker. I’d be fine if we did…the team is broken right now..but the blaming of Book is excessive. And to not give Book any credit for the “CP3 era” is low. So is blaming him for the McD era. He deserves criticism for how this team with KD failed, I don’t think anyone would say otherwise…it’s just excessive.

i don't see the purpose of me redundantly pointing out his plus points when that is what this forum, Arizona Sports radio and TV does non-stop with full bias and allowances for this town's home-grown star.

regarding not crediting him for the CP3 era -- it is not "low," it's consistent. I credited KJ for his era as a leader, Barkley for his era as the leader, etc.. without co-crediting the unquestionable value of key teammates. CP3 was the team's leader (and a top league MVP candidate) those 2 years.

as i said in the prior post, age is Booker's plus factor only if a case can be made that his offensive and DEFENSIVE performance stands to outweigh his prohibitive salary that will likely be the most expensive in the NBA next season (according to Bickley).

let's explore further after the season ends

I was trying to tell you the purpose. You are getting frustrated that no one wants to agree with you. It’s because you are only bashing him. You make it sound like he’s one of the worst players in the game. No one is going to take your thoughts seriously because it just feels like you have an axe to grind. You’re more than welcome to continue, but don’t get upset when people try to defend him against the constant bashing.

[Split T]

Also Bickley is wrong…10 players will have a higher salary than Booker next year…including 2 players still on the current team.

Also the age factor was only in relation to KD. My point was we wouldn’t be talking about trading KD if he was 28 and Booker was 36. We’d trade Booker.

[JeremyG]

I think Bickley talked about him being eligible for a new extension of $70 million or something, but that would be signed in 2026 I believe?

[Split T]

Gotcha…it would be on the 2nd anniversary of his current contract. That would be like July 1, 2026 as this was just the first year. So next summer.

[Split T]

But yes I believe that extension, which would start in 28-29 could pay him 233 million over 3 years(starting at 72 million a year).

[TOO]

Insane. I would definitely not pay him that.

[Split T]

Well the salary cap is going to be north of 200 million by then as well. I’m not saying I’d pay him that, but it’s not like making 72 million in todays numbers…it’s like making 49 million, which is what he’s making.

[O_Gardino]

I've been hearing that viewership has been way down the last couple of years. Any truth to that? Should we expect the salary cap to go down if the NBA becomes less profitable as there are fewer cable subscribers? I really don't know anything about this stuff.

[Split T]

I've been hearing that viewership has been way down the last couple of years. Any truth to that? Should we expect the salary cap to go down if the NBA becomes less profitable as there are fewer cable subscribers? I really don't know anything about this stuff.

Nah they just locked in the new media deal which goes into effect this year(maybe?)…anyways, the nba is getting way more money and we will see a huge jump in salaries. They maxed the single year increase to 10%, but we are going to see a 10% increase every year to catch up.

[ShelC]

As crazy as the per year salaries will be, it still needs to be looked as a percentage of the cap.

[Split T]

Yep…and those don’t ever change. It’s always 25%/30%/35% of the cap, depending on where you are at in service time(plus of course you can jump up if you qualify via all-nba, mvp, etc)

[1tinsoldier]

No one is going to take your thoughts seriously because it just feels like you have an axe to grind. You’re more than welcome to continue, but don’t get upset when people try to defend him against the constant bashing.

i absolutely DO have an axe to grind. His special treatment in phx despite "leading" the Suns to ruin has ruined my enjoyment of a team i've rooted for for 35 years and i find the local media hype and the homer fan-boys overbearing.

i get upset when posters make it about me instead of debating the issues of his performance (like just now when i logically pointed out that age is only a positive factor if the value of the player in question is worth the longer investment).

and, it's naive to assume that my "bashing" is unique because your opinion may be the dominant one here. (none of the following posts are mine)

exhibit A:


exhibit B: