Jeff Hornacek #farmville . Does he suck?

[Indy]

I agree. That was unnecessary.
It's trying to be right by getting in the last word, a tactic that rarely ever works.

[Mori Chu]

Yeah. The way to handle the Dragic thing is just to thank him for his years of service as a great Sun, wish him well, and keep any negative comments to yourselves. You don't always have to have a retort every time somebody barbs you.

[bwgood77]

I have a far different opinion than you guys. In retrospect, the IT signing was absolutely terrible. It ruined team chemistry and led to Dragic's ouster.

Agreed

[bwgood77]

I have a far different opinion than you guys. In retrospect, the IT signing was absolutely terrible. It ruined team chemistry and led to Dragic's ouster.

I get what you are saying, but to me it is clear that didn't happen. Dragic was complaining last year about having to just share the ball with Bledsoe. Both sides confirmed this (I think). The only reason he didn't blow up last year was he got to be showcased for much of the season without Bledsoe. It might have come about a bit differently, but it was coming nonetheless. Honestly, it is pretty clear he wanted a max contract, and there were people willing to give it to him, and we weren't one of them. His agent isn't going to let him walk away from $20M/yr.

I don't buy it. What Dragic said, early last year, was that he wondered when they were bringing in Bledsoe what it meant for him. Was he on his way out? He was concerned, but then Hornacek told him the plan and Dragic enjoyed it and mentioned it. He also got to control the ball half the time when they played together and full time when Bledsoe sat.

With the third point guard, he never controlled the ball, and you could tell by his demeanor he was deflated this year. He by no means looked this way last year.

The front office twisted those words where Dragic said he was initially concerned when they signed Bledsoe and said "Dragic had a problem when we signed Bledsoe" and I believe they were trying to save face. That is just my take on the situation.

I wish I could hear Dragic's side of the story. They also reported that Dragic wouldn't stay any longer even if they traded Thomas, but by this point I think he was just past the point of no return. I think they likely told him repeatedly earlier in the season they would trade IT and they never did, so he lost trust as the deadline grew near and IT was still there.

[bwgood77]

ILast year, Jeff Hornacek was considered a genius by us all, seeing how the team overachieved. This year, many of the same people are pretty much calling him an idiot.

It's pretty clear to me that Hornacek is an excellent coach given the right circumstances, where he has the strategic and tactical freedom to earn buy-in from the players. This year, where Hornacek could not control contract situations, demands for additional usage and a mess of a roster where players could not be placed into proper roles, he's undoubtedly sucked at times. So, it's pretty clear to me that Hornacek is an atrocious coach given the wrong circumstances.

The question is how to create the right kind of circumstances. As many (astute) observers have noted, ball movement has improved greatly since the trade and hero ball has decreased -- at least until this game, when the team has come out extremely flat. Flush this turd and play the next one.

Let's see how Hornacek does the rest of the season. I would like to remind everyone not to jump to conclusions too quickly. Not to single you out, but Robot -- remember how you were portraying Alex Len just at the beginning of the season. I'm not ready to sing the praises of McDonough, Babby and Hornacek quite yet, but I am very cautiously optimistic about the team going forwards.

I agree. A coach doesn't go from COY candidate to terrible coach in a year. What changed? The makeup of the roster.

[Indy]

Dragic was quiet publicly until his vacation with his brother AND his agent during the All-Star Break. I am sure words were twisted on both sides, but it was very clear Dragic didn't want to be here, and used the worst way possible for the team to get out. It certainly seems better for Dragic, but sucks for our team.

I think Dragic is a very good player, and he was my favorite person on the team the last couple years, but he didn't want to be here and he got his wish (while screwing us). Good for him. Bad for us. It sucks, but it is the way it is. I have no ill will towards him. But pretending that he comes out smelling like roses in all this isn't honest.

[3rdside]

Dragic screwed us no doubt but what a turn around from the off season saying he'd opt out but return to phoenix; we clearly pi$$ed him off. Yay McD. Yay Hornacek.

But what's funny is that I feel no ill towards him either - he's a talent and was being retarded here by the club (it pains me to say..), and we got something back instead of nothing. I'm not an insider but copied this from Real GM (Darkhawk I think posted it); GD we should have looked after him better:



Pelton: Dragic is worth the money

After news of Dragic's desire to be traded broke Tuesday night, I tweeted "buyer beware," noting that Dragic will be 29 by the time he becomes a free agent this summer, and his 2013-14 performance looks suspiciously fluky compared to the rest of his career. But a funny thing happened when I went to find evidence for my argument: It turns out I was completely wrong, at least about whether Dragic's return to earth is better explained by regression or the Suns' glut of point guards.

Part of my logic was that relatively few of Dragic's minutes have come with Thomas; he mostly has played with Bledsoe, the same starting lineup as last season. This is true; according to NBAwowy.com, nearly two-thirds of Dragic's minutes have come next to Bledsoe with Thomas on the bench. However, that is a change from last season. Because of Bledsoe's knee surgery and coach Jeff Hornacek's ability to offset the minutes of the two point guards he then had on the roster, Dragic played more than twice as many minutes with Bledsoe on the bench as on the court, according to NBA.com/Stats.

Moreover, the difference between Dragic's performance with and without Bledsoe is staggering. Basically, Dragic's All-NBA nod can be attributed entirely to how he performed as Phoenix's lone point guard. Check out a comparison of his numbers by backcourt:

Dragic 2013-14 Performance
Role P36 A36 Usg TS% Win% WARP
Lone PG 22.1 6.9 .257 .622 .658 9.1
W/Bledsoe 18.2 4.4 .226 .565 .505 1.7
With the ball in his hands more frequently, Dragic created more of his own offense and set up teammates more frequently. Yet he also defied the typical relationship between usage and efficiency by improving his true shooting percentage dramatically as well. When Bledsoe was on the court with him, Dragic was about an average player. (League average for win percentage, the per-minute version of my wins above replacement player [WARP] metric, is .500.) With Bledsoe on the bench, Dragic had the league's 11th-best winning percentage.

This season, that issue has been exacerbated by Thomas' presence. It's no longer possible for Hornacek to stagger minutes so only one point guard is on the court at a time -- Dragic has played barely 100 minutes all season without either Bledsoe or Thomas alongside him, per NBAwowy.com.

Dragic 2014-15 Performance
Role P36 A36 Usg TS% Win% WARP
W/Bledsoe 17.2 4.0 .216 .563 .504 2.1
W/Thomas 15.5 3.4 .204 .517 .420 0.0
W/3 PG 14.4 3.5 .172 .614 .416 0.0
Lone PG 20.9 7.4 .245 .666 .598 0.4
Dragic has played about the same with Bledsoe as he did last season. But next to Thomas, a more ball-dominant point guard, Dragic's per-minute ratings drop to replacement level. He's been relegated to spotting up, sending his usage rate plummeting -- particularly with all three point guards on the court together. In the few opportunities Dragic has had the point all to himself, he's generally performed like last season, with the exception of a small-sample spike in his turnover rate. Dragic's per-36 averages as the lone point have been All-Star-caliber. Per Basketball-Reference.com, just three players are averaging at least 20.0 points and 7.0 assists per 36 minutes this season: Stephen Curry, LeBron James and Russell Westbrook.

Whatever team acquires Dragic can't expect this level of performance for the life of his next contract. His age is still a concern. Players rated as similar by my SCHOENE projection system saw their WARP totals drop by more than 20 percent between their age-29 and age-30 seasons. A four-year deal for the maximum salary would likely prove an overpay, even with the cap due to rise dramatically.

The right fit also will be crucial. Dragic won't be able to dominate the ball playing next to Kobe Bryant with the Lakers or in the Knicks' triangle offense, creating some of the same issues produced by the Suns' current glut of point guards. But if Dragic gets a chance to play primarily with the ball, the rest of the league should beware.

[Superbone]

Listened to Hornacek's interview on the AZSports radio app and it was interesting he was talking about defense and how he told the team to get into the offensive player instead of laying off. Well, I noticed our guys were still laying off so they have a long way to go on defense. SA on the other hand was getting right into our players and making it tough for them to score and clearly frustrated us on our way to the record low scoring first half.

[specialsauce]

ILast year, Jeff Hornacek was considered a genius by us all, seeing how the team overachieved. This year, many of the same people are pretty much calling him an idiot.

It's pretty clear to me that Hornacek is an excellent coach given the right circumstances, where he has the strategic and tactical freedom to earn buy-in from the players. This year, where Hornacek could not control contract situations, demands for additional usage and a mess of a roster where players could not be placed into proper roles, he's undoubtedly sucked at times. So, it's pretty clear to me that Hornacek is an atrocious coach given the wrong circumstances.

The question is how to create the right kind of circumstances. As many (astute) observers have noted, ball movement has improved greatly since the trade and hero ball has decreased -- at least until this game, when the team has come out extremely flat. Flush this turd and play the next one.

Let's see how Hornacek does the rest of the season. I would like to remind everyone not to jump to conclusions too quickly. Not to single you out, but Robot -- remember how you were portraying Alex Len just at the beginning of the season. I'm not ready to sing the praises of McDonough, Babby and Hornacek quite yet, but I am very cautiously optimistic about the team going forwards.

I agree. A coach doesn't go from COY candidate to terrible coach in a year. What changed? The makeup of the roster.

People really think he's still a good coach?

He has plenty of potential talent (Archie, TJ, Reggie) on the roster. Instead he continues to put in players that he KNOWS suck. Players that have no future in our system. Players that offer NO advantage to winning now, obvious by our record. Players that show him NO respect, ignore his coaching and overall refuse to play as a team or show any kind of improvement during the season. He's weak and has a bad eye for talent.