Game Day: Knicks (14-10) @ Suns (7-17), Tues 12/13/16

[ShelC]

You can only hope we're showcasing for some deadline deals. Clips fans were talking up Tucker last night, saying they need a player like him. Seems like they've been looking for a SF for years. A 3 and D guy.

[Cap]

I appreciate Beldsoe's solid line again but I wish EJ would stop saying, "Bledsoe is becoming one of the best PG's in the Western Conference." Really EJ? Because I can name six that are head and shoulders better. Steph, Lillard, Conley, Westbrook, Paul, Parker.

Harden's a PG now too.

Updating Knight/Day tracker...

Knight: -214 (nobody else in the league anywhere close to that)
Day: +60

[LazarusLong]

Tucker may be a caveman on offense, but he has stepped up the effort in other areas of his game. He's probably the most tradable commodity right now -- his contract is relatively cheap -- and he's playing well. We can only hope McDoughnut flips him for a piece that fits.

Speaking of McD. anybody catch Hornacek's pregame comments last night? Or is that covered on another thread.

[carey]

Speaking of McD. anybody catch Hornacek's pregame comments last night? Or is that covered on another thread.

Shel touched on it on page 1: http://www.phx-suns.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1173#p73152

[Indy]

I appreciate Beldsoe's solid line again but I wish EJ would stop saying, "Bledsoe is becoming one of the best PG's in the Western Conference." Really EJ? Because I can name six that are head and shoulders better. Steph, Lillard, Conley, Westbrook, Paul, Parker.

Harden's a PG now too.

Updating Knight/Day tracker...

Knight: -214 (nobody else in the league anywhere close to that)
Day: +60

My move to Michigan and working 3 hours apart from many of you put me behind here. What is your Knight/Day tracker?

[Indy]

I appreciate Beldsoe's solid line again but I wish EJ would stop saying, "Bledsoe is becoming one of the best PG's in the Western Conference." Really EJ? Because I can name six that are head and shoulders better. Steph, Lillard, Conley, Westbrook, Paul, Parker. So Beldsoe has had some nice stats playing the likes of Derrick Rose and Jrue Holiday but let's calm the fuck down about him EJ.

Obvious on Curry/Westbrook as those guys are two of the top 5 players in the entire league, but the other PGs are not significantly better than Bledsoe (although they might be better fits for our team).

[Cap]

I appreciate Beldsoe's solid line again but I wish EJ would stop saying, "Bledsoe is becoming one of the best PG's in the Western Conference." Really EJ? Because I can name six that are head and shoulders better. Steph, Lillard, Conley, Westbrook, Paul, Parker.

Harden's a PG now too.

Updating Knight/Day tracker...

Knight: -214 (nobody else in the league anywhere close to that)
Day: +60

My move to Michigan and working 3 hours apart from many of you put me behind here. What is your Knight/Day tracker?

Knight's +/- on the season, compared to the team's +/- when he isn't playing.

[LazarusLong]

Speaking of McD. anybody catch Hornacek's pregame comments last night? Or is that covered on another thread.

Shel touched on it on page 1: http://www.phx-suns.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1173#p73152

Thanks for the advisory.

Hornacek also mentioned that saddling him with three point guards and essentially forced to play all most of the time did not help the team.

[JCSunsfan]

Watson repeatedly is giving Marquese Chriss the toughest defensive assignment on the floor. He covered KAT the entire time in the Minny game. He had KP last night. Trial by fire I guess.

[djy2j]

I appreciate Beldsoe's solid line again but I wish EJ would stop saying, "Bledsoe is becoming one of the best PG's in the Western Conference." Really EJ? Because I can name six that are head and shoulders better. Steph, Lillard, Conley, Westbrook, Paul, Parker. So Beldsoe has had some nice stats playing the likes of Derrick Rose and Jrue Holiday but let's calm the f*** down about him EJ.

Obvious on Curry/Westbrook as those guys are two of the top 5 players in the entire league, but the other PGs are not significantly better than Bledsoe (although they might be better fits for our team).

I disagree. I think a big factor in being a good point guard is the ability to make your team better as well as the physical talents. Take all those guys off their team and the team is noticeably LESS successful. That's not the case with Beldsoe. That's why he is not elite and probably never will be.

[Shabazz]

I'll give credit to Tucker for his defense on AD and Melo. Pretty impressive that he did it consecutive games. I think it's a little of good D and off nights by both players. Tucker plays hard and I would like him a hell of a lot more if they didn't give him the green light on offense. He makes sooo many bonehead plays on offense that it takes away from what he does on defense IMO.

I appreciate Beldsoe's solid line again but I wish EJ would stop saying, "Bledsoe is becoming one of the best PG's in the Western Conference." Really EJ? Because I can name six that are head and shoulders better. Steph, Lillard, Conley, Westbrook, Paul, Parker. So Beldsoe has had some nice stats playing the likes of Derrick Rose and Jrue Holiday but let's calm the f*** down about him EJ.

Glad Chriss had a breakout game. He's fun to watch when he's locked in. Imagine if we had guards that could throw him lobs. Oh brother!

Parker?

[Hermen]

Well Parker is barely playing this year so he's probably not the best example currently. But I don't see how there can be any doubt about Paul or Lilard being much better than Bledsoe.

And I love Conley. Does everything and plays smart. I remember reading once that he keeps track if someone didn't get the ball in a while and makes sure to get him shots. Which made me feel all warm inside cause that's what I like from a playmaker

[Superbone]

I can give Tucker his due while still not liking the way this thing shook out, right? The two aren't mutually exclusive? Shutting down Anthony is impressive. He's still capable of playing very good basketball, but like we saw when Steve was here the older you get the harder it is to summon night after night.

I apologize if you think I'm too negative. It's just these guys aren't the future of the team. We're not any good. We're not going anywhere. We have to put a sustainable long term plan in effect. If that plan is sitting our rookies so they can learn from vets that play hard I can understand it. I just don't agree with it because while wins are important each and every one will effect our draft position. So we're doing two things while riding our aging vets 40 minutes a night. We're slowing the growth of the guys that will be here in the future and we're pushing ourselves further from a chance at Fultz & Ball. That's all it is to me right now. I appreciate the effort of Tucker, Chandler and Eric. Those guys generally come to battle every night. What I care about is the future of this team and it is more important than the present for me. I won't beat a dead horse every night just like I won't do it with trading Brandon Knight. You guys know where I stand with both now and I won't beat it into the ground here because I know how annoying that can be.

+1 on this too. There is a short-term look and a long-term look. Some of us are very short-term, or live in the moment. Others are very strategic and thinking about the next step (or 3).

And some of us can see the big picture AND live in the moment. They're not mutually exclusive. We can also see what is our reality. It's pretty obviously that we're trying to win rather than concentrate on the development of the young guys at the expense of wins whether we like it or not. Wishing otherwise won't make it happen. Might as well enjoy the journey along the way. Maybe later in the season we will shift gears to more player development. I too would like to see a lot more Bender and Ulis and I would love to have a shot at a top draft pick.

BTW, I appreciate you laying out your take carey and I can respect that.

[EDC]

I can give Tucker his due while still not liking the way this thing shook out, right? The two aren't mutually exclusive? Shutting down Anthony is impressive. He's still capable of playing very good basketball, but like we saw when Steve was here the older you get the harder it is to summon night after night.

I apologize if you think I'm too negative. It's just these guys aren't the future of the team. We're not any good. We're not going anywhere. We have to put a sustainable long term plan in effect. If that plan is sitting our rookies so they can learn from vets that play hard I can understand it. I just don't agree with it because while wins are important each and every one will effect our draft position. So we're doing two things while riding our aging vets 40 minutes a night. We're slowing the growth of the guys that will be here in the future and we're pushing ourselves further from a chance at Fultz & Ball. That's all it is to me right now. I appreciate the effort of Tucker, Chandler and Eric. Those guys generally come to battle every night. What I care about is the future of this team and it is more important than the present for me. I won't beat a dead horse every night just like I won't do it with trading Brandon Knight. You guys know where I stand with both now and I won't beat it into the ground here because I know how annoying that can be.

You aren't too negative. We have watched this same group of players struggle for years. Even at their best these vets aren't good enough to get us into the playoffs. That is the real problem. A good coach would be able to balance the playing time of vets and rookies. Actually involving the rookies into the offense. Not that we have much of one. Coach has done a poor job of balancing things.

The imbalance of minutes for our lottery picks is mind boggling. Chriss had a really nice game today but he has struggled a lot over the course of the season. Every game he makes a lot of really bad decisions on the defensive end. All that said I am glad he is getting minutes. What I can't stand is that Bender has looked better than Chriss and yet he is getting jack shit in terms of playing time from our coach. Our 4th pick in the draft has to sit on the bench so PJ can get 40+ minutes. 228 minutes for Bender this season while Chriss has 406.

On top of all that they don't run shit for offense out there. Watson just sticks both Bender and Chriss out there with zero help. No plays ran for them. No involvement in any pick and rolls. They just get to run off ball screens or sit in the corner. We do have some plays that could really help the young guys. The play that we were running for TJ that would get him the ball at the free throw line after a screen. That would be a great play for both Bender and Chriss.

I would really like to see a Bender/Len pick and roll. With Bender playing the four. The kid has shown in the limited amount of times he has gotten the ball on the move that he can find the open man. His handles probably need to improve some but against slower fours it could be very interesting. As for Chriss he should be the pick man way more often than he is. Not that our guards can throw a pass to a roller that isn't at their ankles. A Ulis/Chriss pick and roll could be great but the odds that Ulis gets any playing time is pretty damn low.

All of that shit can be done even with giving the vets most of the playing time and going for wins. If we had an experienced coach. Of course Sarver had to go cheap on non player personnel. Always first time front office guys or coaches. No experience because they are cheaper. Watson may turn into a good head coach but he isn't one currently. The real kicker is if Watson does figure it all out and can actually demand a decent wage he will probably just be replaced by someone else with zero experience.

[EDC]

You can only hope we're showcasing for some deadline deals. Clips fans were talking up Tucker last night, saying they need a player like him. Seems like they've been looking for a SF for years. A 3 and D guy.

I really can't wait for the trade deadline. I'm getting pretty jaded. I watch every game but I really don't care if we win or lose. I only really enjoy watching Booker, Len, TJ, Bender, Chriss and Ulis. While they all struggle plenty at least there is the hope of them improving and becoming really good players.

I would love if we just cleaned house. Trade Bledsoe, Knight, PJ and Chandler. Get back a vet point guard that can actually create offense for others and a backup center. Preferably a young guy.

Vet PG/Ulis
Booker/Barbosa
TJ/Bender
Chriss/Dudley
Len/backup center

The front office probably won't do that so the best we can hope for is that they ship Knight and PJ out for draft picks.

Bledsoe/Ulis
Booker/Barbosa
TJ/Bender
Chriss/Dudley
Chandler/Len

They really need to give Len a lot of minutes in the second half of the season. Just not sure that will happen if Chandler is still here.

[Cap]

The real kicker is if Watson does figure it all out and can actually demand a decent wage he will probably just be replaced by someone else with zero experience.

He'd leave for a bigger paycheck? But we're family.

[LazarusLong]

I can give Tucker his due while still not liking the way this thing shook out, right? The two aren't mutually exclusive? Shutting down Anthony is impressive. He's still capable of playing very good basketball, but like we saw when Steve was here the older you get the harder it is to summon night after night.

I apologize if you think I'm too negative. It's just these guys aren't the future of the team. We're not any good. We're not going anywhere. We have to put a sustainable long term plan in effect. If that plan is sitting our rookies so they can learn from vets that play hard I can understand it. I just don't agree with it because while wins are important each and every one will effect our draft position. So we're doing two things while riding our aging vets 40 minutes a night. We're slowing the growth of the guys that will be here in the future and we're pushing ourselves further from a chance at Fultz & Ball. That's all it is to me right now. I appreciate the effort of Tucker, Chandler and Eric. Those guys generally come to battle every night. What I care about is the future of this team and it is more important than the present for me. I won't beat a dead horse every night just like I won't do it with trading Brandon Knight. You guys know where I stand with both now and I won't beat it into the ground here because I know how annoying that can be.

You aren't too negative. We have watched this same group of players struggle for years. Even at their best these vets aren't good enough to get us into the playoffs. That is the real problem. A good coach would be able to balance the playing time of vets and rookies. Actually involving the rookies into the offense. Not that we have much of one. Coach has done a poor job of balancing things.

The imbalance of minutes for our lottery picks is mind boggling. Chriss had a really nice game today but he has struggled a lot over the course of the season. Every game he makes a lot of really bad decisions on the defensive end. All that said I am glad he is getting minutes. What I can't stand is that Bender has looked better than Chriss and yet he is getting jack s*** in terms of playing time from our coach. Our 4th pick in the draft has to sit on the bench so PJ can get 40+ minutes. 228 minutes for Bender this season while Chriss has 406.

On top of all that they don't run s*** for offense out there. Watson just sticks both Bender and Chriss out there with zero help. No plays ran for them. No involvement in any pick and rolls. They just get to run off ball screens or sit in the corner. We do have some plays that could really help the young guys. The play that we were running for TJ that would get him the ball at the free throw line after a screen. That would be a great play for both Bender and Chriss.

I would really like to see a Bender/Len pick and roll. With Bender playing the four. The kid has shown in the limited amount of times he has gotten the ball on the move that he can find the open man. His handles probably need to improve some but against slower fours it could be very interesting. As for Chriss he should be the pick man way more often than he is. Not that our guards can throw a pass to a roller that isn't at their ankles. A Ulis/Chriss pick and roll could be great but the odds that Ulis gets any playing time is pretty damn low.

All of that s*** can be done even with giving the vets most of the playing time and going for wins. If we had an experienced coach. Of course Sarver had to go cheap on non player personnel. Always first time front office guys or coaches. No experience because they are cheaper. Watson may turn into a good head coach but he isn't one currently. The real kicker is if Watson does figure it all out and can actually demand a decent wage he will probably just be replaced by someone else with zero experience.

Interesting discussion.

Chriss is sort of like Shawn Marion, a high-energy guy who needs little impetus to get going.

Bender is somewhat like Boris Diaw, a high BB IQ player who looks to fit in, but is passive if in a system that does not integrate his talents.
It seems like Bender is playing not to fail ... that's on coaching.

[INFORMER]

I really hope someone comes after Bledsoe as well. Would be nice to sell high before something happens to his knee again.

Exactly.

[Indy]

I really hope someone comes after Bledsoe as well. Would be nice to sell high before something happens to his knee again.

Exactly.

I don't think his stock gets much higher than it is right now, honestly. Same with PJ, Knight and Chandler. We clearly aren't going to win 30 games this year, so cash in!

[UglyTruth]

I'll give credit to Tucker for his defense on AD and Melo. Pretty impressive that he did it consecutive games. I think it's a little of good D and off nights by both players. Tucker plays hard and I would like him a hell of a lot more if they didn't give him the green light on offense. He makes sooo many bonehead plays on offense that it takes away from what he does on defense IMO.

I appreciate Beldsoe's solid line again but I wish EJ would stop saying, "Bledsoe is becoming one of the best PG's in the Western Conference." Really EJ? Because I can name six that are head and shoulders better. Steph, Lillard, Conley, Westbrook, Paul, Parker. So Beldsoe has had some nice stats playing the likes of Derrick Rose and Jrue Holiday but let's calm the f*** down about him EJ.

Glad Chriss had a breakout game. He's fun to watch when he's locked in. Imagine if we had guards that could throw him lobs. Oh brother!

I hope that's a joke...Spurs fans would give up their left nut to swap Parker for Bledsoe.

Parker hasn't been any good in years now.

And Bledsoe is about as good as Conley is. Both have significant injury concerns though.

Agreed with the rest of the list but I would add Harden to it as well.