Around the League: Week 10 12/26-1/1

[pickle]

I think you give player development coaches too much credit. I think we have some work to do on that end, but Kawhi and Giannis would be great no matter where they ended up.

Maybe you are right. I'm not so sure. Plenty of castoffs have gone to San Antonio and resurrected their careers, just as a lot of guys were made better by Nash during our heyday ... I think an organization's overall culture definitely matters in these things. Plus this line of thinking keeps me sane, as I felt it was a pretty easy choice to draft Kawhi over Markieff that one year.

[Split T]

I think you give player development coaches too much credit. I think we have some work to do on that end, but Kawhi and Giannis would be great no matter where they ended up.

Maybe you are right. I'm not so sure. Plenty of castoffs have gone to San Antonio and resurrected their careers, just as a lot of guys were made better by Nash during our heyday ... I think an organization's overall culture definitely matters in these things. Plus this line of thinking keeps me sane, as I felt it was a pretty easy choice to draft Kawhi over M******f that one year.

I agree with you, I guess I just think Kawhi and Giannis aren't the best examples. The spurs got a lot out of the Danny green, George hill, Garrett temple, Matt bonners of the world because they took their talents and developed them into useful pieces. Then on the opposite end you take a guy like Archie Goodwin who essentially left the league as the same player he was when he joined. And Archie has to take most of the responsibility for that, but sometimes you wonder how his career would have turned out had he played for the spurs.

Interesting note, dejounte murray has quite a few similarities to Archie, maybe we'll see what the spurs can do with him.

[Ring_Wanted]

I think the Freak and Kawhi landed just in the perfect situation for them.

Kawhi could have been buried in a bench because he couldn't shoot, or simply used as a role player instead of being developed as the heir apparent to a freaking basketball empire. A moron could have taken his quietness for apathy. Imagine him in Charlotte.

The Freak, in different hands, could have never had the chance to explore his allaround game. He is playing as the PG under Kidd! Come on. How many other teams could afford such experiment? It takes the perfect storm. The Bucks not having a dominant PG, having a willing head coach, having a losing roster so mistakes don't matter, etc.

None of that would be happeing on the Phoenix Suns of these past years (or the vast majority of the league for that matter).

[Ring_Wanted]

https://twitter.com/WojVerticalNBA/status/817180132322504704

Btw, this is huge for the Cavs. Adding an alltime elite 3pt shooter? Korver by himlsef generates a good amount of gravity. Adding that to LeBron and viceversa? This is crazy, I wonder what they are going to give up.

If true, it probably means Millsap is on his way out too. Would be funny if it were the Raptors. The two best teams in the east today looting the corpse of what was a 60+ wins team and first seed at the end of 2015. Absolutely stunning.

And if by chance the Hawks go full insane and fire coach Bud... who am I kidding, we probably wouldn't even think we need him.


Edit: Apparently, besides Dunleavy Jr, it's their proteted '19 1stR.

[Ring_Wanted]

So this is what Griffin is up to: https://twitter.com/FearTheSword/status/817192718854189057 To play off LeBron freaking James and Irving.

Crazy stuff.

[ShelC]

Whatever, we have Eric Bledsoe and Brandon Knight. I'm not scared.

[Ring_Wanted]

Whatever, we have Eric Bledsoe and Brandon Knight. I'm not scared.

Ha. I guess they are only scary to those who think they have a chance.

But seriously, I'd be worried if I were the Warriors. Their loss at Cleveland was very real, they wasted a 14 points or so lead in the 4Q. This doesn't give Cleveland anything different but it makes them better and deeper.

Not the same caliber as the Pau-Shaq trading year, but could lead to a very interesting domino effect. Toronto needs to do something. Maybe Boston too.

...

Spoiler: show/hide

4 way trade time!

Atlanta out: Howard, Millsap, Bazemore.
Atlanta in: Valanciunas, Vonleh, Sullinger (expiring filler), '17 1stR from Portland top10 protected, '17 1stR from Clipps via Tor, '19 unprotected protected from Tor.
Why? Rebuild. Start again with a young frontcourt combo to be led by Schroder, plus picks for the future.

Toronto out: Valanciunas, Nogueira, the picks, DeMarre Carroll.
Toronto in: Howard, Millsap and PJ Tucker.
Why? All in. ALL IN. And they'll have to SPEND a lot of money, but that's why it is all in. But they get to keep some prospects, including their last high pick. The time is now with Lowry and DeRozan and they know they can't beat LeBron.

Portland out: Vonleh, Meyers Leonard, Ed Davis, '17 pick top10 protected.
Portland in: DeMarre, Len, Bazemore.
Why? They need defense and rebounding. They spend disposable assets (Vonleh, pick) to achieve it (Bazemore, Len). They exchange one questionable contract for fit (Meyers, DeMarre).

Phoenix out: Len, Tucker.
Phoenix in: Nogueira, Meyers Leonard, Ed Davis.
Why for us? Exchange center prospect looking for more athleticism and mobility, while we delay paying for one year. Take a flyer on Leonard, who still makes an interesting stretch big. Pawn off Tucker while we can. Ed Davis is mostly filler althoug quality and cheap at that. If we are going to keep being guard-o-centric, a big rotation of Chandler, Nogueira, Davis and Sauce, plus Bender-Chriss doesn't sound bad. I'd look to pawn off Chandler and Davis, though.

[carey]

Btw, if all Atlanta got for Korver was a protected 1st in 2019 we aren't getting shit for Brandon Knight. Although, Korver is just a 5 month rental.

[ShelC]

Also saw some talk about Rondo to Cleveland, but only glanced and didn't see if there was any truth to it. Still...Lue (LBJ) has to figure out how to use these guys. They're running about 8 guys consistently now...Kyrie, LBJ, Love, Tristan, Shump, Frye, RJ and JR (when he was healthy)...now throw in Korver and potentially Dunleavy (depends how many minutes he gets). Not sure where you have 25 minutes for Korver unless RJ gets benched and they still need help in the frontcourt as they have no rim protection.

Regarding Boston and Toronto, it's dumb to make a move just to keep up with another team's moves. We should know that by now. Make a move if it strengthens your style of play without disrupting what's already in place. Toronto lives and dies with Lowry and DeRozen. Would adding a guy like Millsap get them to the next level? Would he mess up the balance with Lowry and DeRozen in terms of their style and number of shots? Boston still needs a big, but they already have Horford up front and haven't really integrated him into the offense just yet. I think Tyson would be fantastic there, but that would mean moving Horford to the 4. And would Tyson even see the floor against the Cavs?

[Ring_Wanted]

Also saw some talk about Rondo to Cleveland, but only glanced and didn't see if there was any truth to it. Still...Lue (LBJ) has to figure out how to use these guys. They're running about 8 guys consistently now...Kyrie, LBJ, Love, Tristan, Shump, Frye, RJ and JR (when he was healthy)...now throw in Korver and potentially Dunleavy (depends how many minutes he gets). Not sure where you have 25 minutes for Korver unless RJ gets benched and they still need help in the frontcourt as they have no rim protection.

They are replacing JR while out with a better player. Both are compatible after JR comes back. Liggins is also part of their rotation as a defesive specialist. Dunleavy goes elsewhere, apparently. That's a pretty stacked team.

Regarding Boston and Toronto, it's dumb to make a move just to keep up with another team's moves. We should know that by now. Make a move if it strengthens your style of play without disrupting what's already in place. Toronto lives and dies with Lowry and DeRozen. Would adding a guy like Millsap get them to the next level? Would he mess up the balance with Lowry and DeRozen in terms of their style and number of shots?

I can't say I agree with the general principle behind the first statement, but I concur that Toront is Lowry and DeRozan, so I think they need another option. Valanciunas, for whatever reason, is not it. Millsap can be an answer. He is a very serious player. Really good defender and not a liability at anything but maybe rebounding (but still a PF). Declining soon, perhaps, but he even shoots threes now. I can't say for sure that Millsap puts then on the next level, but I am certain they don't have enough to beat LeBron. Also, I think they are not going to be big players at free agency. Trading their way up could basically be their only option.

Boston still needs a big, but they already have Horford up front and haven't really integrated him into the offense just yet. I think Tyson would be fantastic there, but that would mean moving Horford to the 4. And would Tyson even see the floor against the Cavs?

Bonton is different. They also have terrific draft stock and cap space to add to Iverson-lite and a plethora of good role players. Spending on rebounding sounds wise. Chandler certainly makes sense in a number of ways. Good question on the Cavs, but they use TT a fair amount of minutes. Tyson can compete with him. TT is basically a younger version of him.

I think Ainge spends if it is a cheap contract that offers good value.

[O_Gardino]

If Atlanta is trading both Korver and Milsap, does that mean they brought in Dwight and just kind of quit? Is Dwight that bad a teammate that these guys just want out now?

[carey]

If Atlanta is trading both Korver and Milsap, does that mean they brought in Dwight and just kind of quit? Is Dwight that bad a teammate that these guys just want out now?

I was wondering the same thing. Why bring in Dwight and then go for the rebuild? Seems odd.

[LazarusLong]

If Atlanta is trading both Korver and Milsap, does that mean they brought in Dwight and just kind of quit? Is Dwight that bad a teammate that these guys just want out now?

I was wondering the same thing. Why bring in Dwight and then go for the rebuild? Seems odd.

A lot of "odd" things involving Dwight's respective teams have been happening since Howard left Orlando.

[JCSunsfan]

If Atlanta is trading both Korver and Milsap, does that mean they brought in Dwight and just kind of quit? Is Dwight that bad a teammate that these guys just want out now?

I was wondering the same thing. Why bring in Dwight and then go for the rebuild? Seems odd.

A lot of "odd" things involving Dwight's respective teams have been happening since Howard left Orlando.

Isn't that the truth! Houston drops Dwight, adds Ryan Anderson and Eric Gordon (and Mike DAntoni) and they are off to the races.

[Hermen]

If Atlanta is trading both Korver and Milsap, does that mean they brought in Dwight and just kind of quit? Is Dwight that bad a teammate that these guys just want out now?

Here are my guesses
They signed Dwight to improve their rebounding because they sucked at it. Why they traded Teague for a pick without getting another impact player for them, I don't know. As for why they are rebuilding now: the move from Teague+Horford to Schroeder+Dwight didn't really improve them and they don't want to lose Milsap for nothing like they lost Horford. So they have an average team that is about to lose their best player for nothing, if they don't trade him. Might as well go all the way with the rebuild.

[The Bobster]

Btw, if all Atlanta got for Korver was a protected 1st in 2019 we aren't getting s*** for Brandon Knight. Although, Korver is just a 5 month rental.

Keep in mind that Korver is 35 and Knight is 25.

And there's always some coach somewhere who thinks he can fix him.

[carey]

Btw, if all Atlanta got for Korver was a protected 1st in 2019 we aren't getting s*** for Brandon Knight. Although, Korver is just a 5 month rental.

Keep in mind that Korver is 35 and Knight is 25.

And there's always some coach somewhere who thinks he can fix him.

Channing Frye is the second best spot up shooter in the league. 1.53 PPP.

Kyle Korver is 1st, at 1.55. So 35 or no...

[carey]

https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/817571361006776321 Hopefully this is Bender some day. He does not have the confidence or swagger of KP yet but the skillsets aren't that different.

[ShelC]

Yea well...KP also played his 28mpg his rookie year.

[Split T]

KP was a year older than bender as a rookie and put up great numbers. As much as I'd like to see bender play more minutes, it's not the lack of minutes that's keeping him from being KP. Bender shows flashes, but overall his numbers aren't good. If he was playing like KP, he'd be getting minutes.