Suns News: Week 14 1/23-1/29

Post by **Mori Chu** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:11 am

That list of centers is a poo poo platter. They are all junk. I would want Len over any of them, even at a noticeably higher price, 100% of the time.

(Not attacking you for posting the list; it's informative and helpful. But it shows me how much I do value Len and want to keep him.)

TOO · Post by **TOO** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:51 am

pickle wrote:
Split T wrote:Free agent centers I think will come cheaper than Len:

Tiago Splitter
Amir Johnson
Kelly Olynyk(R)
Spencer Hawes
Roy Hibbert
Cristiano Felicio(R)
Taj Gibson
Andrew Bogut
Zaza Pachulia
Anderson Varejao
Javale McGee
Nene
Willie Reed
Donatas Motejunas
Dewayne Dedmon
Jared Sullinger
Jeff Withey

Some of those guys aren't very good and some won't come here and some are more PF than C, but there's a few on there I'd be interested in.
The only guy on this list that I want over Len is Olynyk. The others are mostly over the hill or have massive problems of their own, like a Sullinger or Hibbert.

I think we need to stop romanticizing about other potential pieces out there and consider the ones we have. Is Len a disappointment for being the 5th pick overall? Absolutely. In a vacuum, is he a terrible player? No he's not (apologies for answering my own rhetorical questions). The market will determine fair value for him, and we can then choose whether to match or not. If he gets one of those Zeller type deals, I'd love to hang on to him and let him continue to grow. If he gets a Mozgov type deal, yeah I'll probably take a deep pause and think things over. On the other hand, I'm hoping that this coming summer will not be nearly as crazy. There's solid money out there, but that money should probably go to the top end free agents, and the second tier of guys will not get as much simply because a few stupid teams have already blown their loads this past summer. IIRC, we are still under the salary floor, and need to pay someone. Instead of paying another unknown who could bring god knows what to the team, slightly overpaying one of our own who has been a good soldier and has never had any chemistry issues despite being jerked around by two consecutive coaching staffs is something I'd place a slight premium on.

Regarding his shooting, if he doesn't shoot those 17 footers in this more or less wasted season, then when? This is exactly the time we need him to do different things on the court to develop new skills. I certainly don't want him to start picking up outside shooting in 3 years when we are actually relevant. As much as I appreciate everything Chandler has done for us, I'd love to move him for future picks and find out what Len is capable of. Which includes experimenting with his mid-range shot.

Why would you want Olynyk? He's a bad rebounder and doesnt block any shots. Thats what Len offers more than anything else. I personally cannot stand bigs that dont rebound, drives me crazy.

Split T · Post by **Split T** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:41 pm

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:That list of centers is a poo poo platter. They are all junk. I would want Len over any of them, even at a noticeably higher price, 100% of the time.

(Not attacking you for posting the list; it's informative and helpful. But it shows me how much I do value Len and want to keep him.)

There's a couple that interest me, but I agree that most on the list aren't worth any consideration. I'd take a look at Willie Reed, Dewayne Dedmon, and Cristiano Felicio. They are all young and have shown some flashes. I wouldn't throw them into a starting role though. If Chandler is moved, I think we definitely need to retain Len.

iLLmatic · Post by **iLLmatic** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:17 pm

Gambo is reporting the Suns and Kings have had trade discussions regarding DeMarcus Cousins::

http://arizonasports.com/story/1010154/ ... uns-kings/

The Phoenix Suns and Sacramento Kings have had discussions about a trade involving All-Star center DeMarcus Cousins according to Arizona Sports’ John Gambadoro.

Gambadoro reports the discussions have centered around involving small forward T.J. Warren, center Alex Len, Phoenix’s first-round pick this year and possibly more. The Suns own all of their future picks and also own two future Miami Heat first-round picks from the Goran Dragic deal.

Post by **carey** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:28 pm

No. Fuck no.

LazarusLong · Post by **LazarusLong** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:34 pm

I have no problems with Cousins (Barkley had a bad rep when Philly traded him, remember).

I do have a problem if they make that trade and Knight, and to a lesser extent, Tucker and Chandler are still on the roster. As assets, Tucker and Chandler soon will be declining.

If this rumor is true, it smells like a short-sighted move just to get Phoenix temporarily in the low echelon stage of the playoffs.

Split T · Post by **Split T** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:39 pm

It's easy to see the appeal in making that trade. I'm not really attached to Warren or Len, so giving them up is no big deal to me. A core of Bledsoe-Booker-Cousins is pretty good and should be a solid playoff team. Can you win a championship with Cousins? Not sure, he's definitely talented enough to carry a championship team, but he's never even been in the playoffs. He just dropped 46/15/5 in a loss to Philly last night. Add a sweet shooting 3 in free agency, and Bled-Booker-FA-Cousins-Chandler is a good lineup. Although I like Cousins better at the 5. Chriss and Bender would both be good fits alongside him in the future.

On the other hand, if we were going to make this trade, we should have done it a month or two ago when the playoffs were still a possibility. That draft pick we'd be giving up is going to be very high. Of course Cousins has more value than the draft pick, but still would be nice to not have to trade away a potential top 3 pick. Would be nice to have that Laker pick to include in the trade offer instead of our own right now. Or to use after we trade our own.

My guess is this trade never happens, if Cousins becomes available, I think Boston would put together a better offer than we will.

JCSunsfan · Post by **JCSunsfan** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:33 pm

Split T wrote:It's easy to see the appeal in making that trade. I'm not really attached to Warren or Len, so giving them up is no big deal to me. A core of Bledsoe-Booker-Cousins is pretty good and should be a solid playoff team. Can you win a championship with Cousins? Not sure, he's definitely talented enough to carry a championship team, but he's never even been in the playoffs. He just dropped 46/15/5 in a loss to Philly last night. Add a sweet shooting 3 in free agency, and Bled-Booker-FA-Cousins-Chandler is a good lineup. Although I like Cousins better at the 5. Chriss and Bender would both be good fits alongside him in the future.

On the other hand, if we were going to make this trade, we should have done it a month or two ago when the playoffs were still a possibility. That draft pick we'd be giving up is going to be very high. Of course Cousins has more value than the draft pick, but still would be nice to not have to trade away a potential top 3 pick. Would be nice to have that Laker pick to include in the trade offer instead of our own right now. Or to use after we trade our own.

My guess is this trade never happens, if Cousins becomes available, I think Boston would put together a better offer than we will.

Does a guaranteed one year of Cousins (he is a FA in 2018) have more value that a potential #1 pick in one of the best stacked drafts in years? Remember that whoever we draft we can basically lock up for 7 or so years.

ShelC · Post by **ShelC** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:35 pm

I don't think Cousins is what Boston wants or needs.

Cousins' talent make him hard to pass up. I'd want Chandler on the roster to hopefully keep DMC in check. Do I love a Bledsoe, Booker, Cousins core? Not really. Would it be interesting. Of course. So many questions tho:

1) I'd definitely send TJ and Len and some combo of picks, but not Miami's.

2) I'd want Chandler on the team for lockerroom reasons, but would he become a backup or do we play DMC at the 4? I believe he considers himself a center but has also said he's wanted to play next to a shotblocking C. I'm sure he wouldn't be able to hang defensively as a 4 all the time. He's played about 40% at PF this season, playing the most amount of minutes next to Koufos.

3) If he's brought in and Chandler stays, at least through the end of the season, Chriss loses a lot of minutes. And what happens in the future? If Chandler is traded now or later, does DMC move to the 5 and Chriss/Bender become the PF? And which one is the better fit? Or does Bender still project as a SF next Chris and DMC? A lot of size and skill in that frontcourt.

4) We still have to move Knight and probably PJ. Our roster would still a be a mess.

5) There's also the contract situation: http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/01/11/rep ... ngs-offer/

AmareIsGod · Post by **AmareIsGod** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:42 pm

I wonder if the guys that are professionals, hired by the Suns organization, wonder and weigh out any of the things we've discussed?

Post by **carey** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:49 pm

Come on guys. This is the player that said "No, mother fucker" when told to do a drill in practice by Mike Malone when he was tired. He has whined his way through several coaches. He's another Markieff Morris albeit extremely more talented. Just keep building the right way, please.

ShelC · Post by **ShelC** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:53 pm

http://clutchpoints.com/nba-executive-d ... g-players/

There's also that, which some speculated could've been one of our guys. Other guesses were Denver and Portland but the assistant coach thing is interesting. We have Tyrone Corbin on staff, who coached DMC while he was with the Kings. Maybe he's working to convince our FO a trade is worthwhile. Two Nuggets assistants were also in Sacramento with Mike Malone so they could be the ones just the same.

Split T · Post by **Split T** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:54 pm

JCSunsfan wrote:
Split T wrote:It's easy to see the appeal in making that trade. I'm not really attached to Warren or Len, so giving them up is no big deal to me. A core of Bledsoe-Booker-Cousins is pretty good and should be a solid playoff team. Can you win a championship with Cousins? Not sure, he's definitely talented enough to carry a championship team, but he's never even been in the playoffs. He just dropped 46/15/5 in a loss to Philly last night. Add a sweet shooting 3 in free agency, and Bled-Booker-FA-Cousins-Chandler is a good lineup. Although I like Cousins better at the 5. Chriss and Bender would both be good fits alongside him in the future.

On the other hand, if we were going to make this trade, we should have done it a month or two ago when the playoffs were still a possibility. That draft pick we'd be giving up is going to be very high. Of course Cousins has more value than the draft pick, but still would be nice to not have to trade away a potential top 3 pick. Would be nice to have that Laker pick to include in the trade offer instead of our own right now. Or to use after we trade our own.

My guess is this trade never happens, if Cousins becomes available, I think Boston would put together a better offer than we will.
Does a guaranteed one year of Cousins (he is a FA in 2018) have more value that a potential #1 pick in one of the best stacked drafts in years? Remember that whoever we draft we can basically lock up for 7 or so years.

I think we'd be able to resign him. I don't see Cousins leaving money on the table. I guess that's a good thing and a bad thing for whoever he ends up playing for. Probably easier to retain, but not sure what his motivations are. He's been content(somewhat) playing on a max contract on a bad team in sacramento. He's expressed concern, but he's never asked out. How much does he care about winning? I'm not sure.

Anyways, I don't think we'd have any problem resigning him if we offer him the max. We're not better than many organizations right now, but we're better than Sacramento and he's spent a 7 years there. We also have one of his good friends in Eric Bledsoe on the team. So I do think he has more value than a potential #1 pick because I'm not worried about him leaving after 1 year at all.

The question is, Does Bled-Booker-Cousins make us a contender? Can that team beat the Warriors? What if we add a FA wing? Top FA wings are Gordon Hayward, Rudy Gay, Tyreke Evans, Danilo Gallinari. Add Hayward or Gallinari and that team becomes very interesting. Doubt we could land Hayward, but maybe Gallinari? Bled-Booker-Gallinari-Cousins-Chandler. With Ulis, Barbosa, Dudley, Bender, and Chriss off the bench. Probably need another guard off the bench, but that should be a top 4 team in the west.

Split T · Post by **Split T** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:58 pm

carey wrote:Come on guys. This is the player that said "No, mother f***" when told to do a drill in practice by Mike Malone when he was tired. He has whined his way through several coaches. He's another M******f M****s albeit extremely more talented. Just keep building the right way, please.

He's got issues, but he's the best Center in the league right now, even with all his baggage. Get him in a better situation and maybe his attitude turns around. It might backfire, but he's so talented, I think it's a risk worth taking. That being said, I'd be just fine building through the draft as well.

Post by **carey** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:01 pm

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/ ... al-problem

You make your own decision. I do not think he's a player I want on my team. I think we are one more high draft pick away from laying a really solid foundation that could be good for a long time.

LazarusLong · Post by **LazarusLong** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:02 pm

carey wrote:Come on guys. This is the player that said "No, mother f***" when told to do a drill in practice by Mike Malone when he was tired. He has whined his way through several coaches. He's another M******f M****s albeit extremely more talented. Just keep building the right way, please.

Really? Malone? Because everything I've ever read was the Malone was the only coach he connected with and Cousins was doubly pissed when Kings management let him go.
I can see DM telling Ty Corbin to take a flying leap, but not Malone.

http://www.businessinsider.com/demarcus ... one-2015-1

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nb ... /83653382/

Post by **carey** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:05 pm

LazarusLong wrote:
carey wrote:Come on guys. This is the player that said "No, mother f***" when told to do a drill in practice by Mike Malone when he was tired. He has whined his way through several coaches. He's another M******f M****s albeit extremely more talented. Just keep building the right way, please.
Really? Malone? Because everything I've ever read was the Malone was the only coach he connected with and Cousins was doubly pissed when Kings management let him go.
I can see DM telling Ty Corbin to take a flying leap, but not Malone.

Yes, I linked the story. The way I heard it on the radio more colorful language was used instead of "Fuck this, man. I'm not running!"

iLLmatic · Post by **iLLmatic** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:13 pm

carey wrote:http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/ ... al-problem

You make your own decision. I do not think he's a player I want on my team. I think we are one more high draft pick away from laying a really solid foundation that could be good for a long time.

Leave it to management to mess it all up.

Post by **carey** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:14 pm

I don't see him re-signing here with Corbin on any part of the bench.

IT'S JANUARY 2015, a few weeks after Malone's firing, and new coach Corbin is presiding over a film session. The team has fallen off a cliff in recent games, and Corbin has cued up a selection of video clips of the team's defensive errors. Much of Corbin's attention is focused on the Kings' porous half-court defense, and Cousins is receiving heavy billing. After a few short minutes, Cousins jumps up.

"Why don't we play film of all of this motherf---er's mistakes?" Cousins shouts to the room, according to a then-teammate, pointing at Corbin. Corbin tries to explain that there's no intent to single out any one player's mistakes. Their recent performances, he says, have been teamwide failures. But Cousins is inconsolable. "Show 'em!"

ShelC · Post by **ShelC** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:17 pm

Burns and Gambo just hashed it out, saying what we're all saying. I mentioned needing Tyson for some lockerroom order, but even I don't think he's enough. Burns and Gambo were saying it might take a well run organization with either a strong coach or a strong player to get Cousins to shut up and buy in. A place like SA with Pop or Cleveland with LBJ, GS with Curry and Durant. Coaches and/or players he has to respect. Not sure Tyson or Bledsoe are those guys. Same for Watson.

The most consistent thing I've seen and heard is that Cousins is a bully. Bullies his teammates when he thinks he's leading, bullies the media (check the video when he curses out a reporter).

The more I think about it, the more I think he'd just walk all over everyone in the organization and we'd be the same as the Kings.

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