2017 NBA Draft Prospect Discussion

[In2ition]

Totally understand that about AD's teams. But he's not really a guy who makes the people around him better, which is what concerns me. He doesn't seem like the #1 star on a championship team, more of a #2 guy for me.

If you remember, INF was advocating this before he was drafted. I agreed with him on this too. He's a bit of a suped up Marion.

[pickle]

Sorry, advocating which? AD? I may not have been very active here during AD's rookie year. What did Inf say?

[TOO]

Totally understand that about AD's teams. But he's not really a guy who makes the people around him better, which is what concerns me. He doesn't seem like the #1 star on a championship team, more of a #2 guy for me.

If you remember, INF was advocating this before he was drafted. I agreed with him on this too. He's a bit of a suped up Marion.

Crazy talk. Dude literally does everything well. His coaching and supporting cast is what failed him. He's already better than Marion ever was.

[Ring_Wanted]

Would anyone trade Bledsoe, Warren + our pick to NO for Anthony Davis?

Ha! That, plus Miami's picks, Chriss and Bender.

[pickle]

He does do everything well. Except win. I hate to get too hung up on supporting cast and all, but he really hasn't elevated the game of anybody around him. I love what he puts up on the court, great defensive player, puts up amazing offensive numbers, but I feel like you can't really run your offense through him. He's good, one of the top 5 young bigs and probably top 10 overall talents in the league, but I'm not throwing in the farm for him yet. Just me though. I love me some more promising youth.

[ShelC]

No one's a winner until they are. Dirk was a soft, jump shooting, Euro you couldn't win with. KG was the guy who couldn't come thru in the 4th and took heat for passing to his teammates late in games when he was in Minny.

[Split T]

Davis has had crappy teammates. Remember, he did get that team to the playoffs in 2014 I believe? It'll be interesting to see how davis-cousins does next season. They were looking like they figured things out there at the end, but it was too late for a playoff run. I think they're a playoff team next year.

[Indy]

No one's a winner until they are. Dirk was a soft, jump shooting, Euro you couldn't win with. KG was the guy who couldn't come thru in the 4th and took heat for passing to his teammates late in games when he was in Minny.

those are really good examples. although I tend to agree with pickle that AD seems like he needs to be either 1B, or even a solid #2 if he is going to win a championship. Which means it probably won't be in NO.

[O_Gardino]

Totally understand that about AD's teams. But he's not really a guy who makes the people around him better, which is what concerns me. He doesn't seem like the #1 star on a championship team, more of a #2 guy for me.

That's true of all big men in today's NBA. Which big man is the best player on his team, and that team is in the playoffs? Marc Gasol? The Clips might be the only team in the NBA to have success with traditional bigs right now, but I consider that a result of how good Chris Paul is at getting dudes involved.

At some point, either the L will change, or Davis will end up like Kevin Love playing a support role to perimeter players.

[O_Gardino]

No one's a winner until they are. Dirk was a soft, jump shooting, Euro you couldn't win with. KG was the guy who couldn't come thru in the 4th and took heat for passing to his teammates late in games when he was in Minny.

Good point.

[Split T]

Totally understand that about AD's teams. But he's not really a guy who makes the people around him better, which is what concerns me. He doesn't seem like the #1 star on a championship team, more of a #2 guy for me.

That's true of all big men in today's NBA. Which big man is the best player on his team, and that team is in the playoffs? Marc Gasol? The Clips might be the only team in the NBA to have success with traditional bigs right now, but I consider that a result of how good Chris Paul is at getting dudes involved.

At some point, either the L will change, or Davis will end up like Kevin Love playing a support role to perimeter players.

Very good point. I had a debate with a friend where I said I'd take Giannis over Anthony Davis and it's because as good as Davis is, he's still reliant upon the ball handlers on his team to an extent. Giannis is the ball handler. You need creators in the league today and Davis just isn't one.

[Indy]

Totally understand that about AD's teams. But he's not really a guy who makes the people around him better, which is what concerns me. He doesn't seem like the #1 star on a championship team, more of a #2 guy for me.

That's true of all big men in today's NBA. Which big man is the best player on his team, and that team is in the playoffs? Marc Gasol? The Clips might be the only team in the NBA to have success with traditional bigs right now, but I consider that a result of how good Chris Paul is at getting dudes involved.

At some point, either the L will change, or Davis will end up like Kevin Love playing a support role to perimeter players.

Very good point. I had a debate with a friend where I said I'd take Giannis over Anthony Davis and it's because as good as Davis is, he's still reliant upon the ball handlers on his team to an extent. Giannis is the ball handler. You need creators in the league today and Davis just isn't one.

I think you need two very good ball handlers that also demand a lot of attention from the opposing defense to be an elite team. And I don't mean one of them as a back up/sixth man. They need to share the floor.

[Mori Chu]

I've never bought into that line about a player not being a winner. As Shel said, you lose until you win. The only guys who I can see the "loser" label attached to are guys whose attitude or game seems to directly result in that losing, such as maybe a Boogie Cousins. A.Davis has an awesome game, great attitude, is a good teammate / locker room guy, etc. He's not the problem in New Orleans.

[Indy]

I've never bought into that line about a player not being a winner. As Shel said, you lose until you win. The only guys who I can see the "loser" label attached to are guys whose attitude or game seems to directly result in that losing, such as maybe a Boogie Cousins. A.Davis has an awesome game, great attitude, is a good teammate / locker room guy, etc. He's not the problem in New Orleans.

He isn't the problem at all. But he also isn't the solution.

[Superbone]

I've never bought into that line about a player not being a winner. As Shel said, you lose until you win. The only guys who I can see the "loser" label attached to are guys whose attitude or game seems to directly result in that losing, such as maybe a Boogie Cousins. A.Davis has an awesome game, great attitude, is a good teammate / locker room guy, etc. He's not the problem in New Orleans.

He isn't the problem at all. But he also isn't the solution.

I don't buy that at all. With the right players around him, I think his team would be very good. I think he would be a huge solution for the Suns.

[Indy]

I've never bought into that line about a player not being a winner. As Shel said, you lose until you win. The only guys who I can see the "loser" label attached to are guys whose attitude or game seems to directly result in that losing, such as maybe a Boogie Cousins. A.Davis has an awesome game, great attitude, is a good teammate / locker room guy, etc. He's not the problem in New Orleans.

He isn't the problem at all. But he also isn't the solution.

I don't buy that at all. With the right players around him, I think his team would be very good. I think he would be a huge solution for the Suns.

I guess that is my point. He can't carry a team by himself. So he needs the FO to build the right team around him to win. That is all I meant by him not being the solution.

[Superbone]

I've never bought into that line about a player not being a winner. As Shel said, you lose until you win. The only guys who I can see the "loser" label attached to are guys whose attitude or game seems to directly result in that losing, such as maybe a Boogie Cousins. A.Davis has an awesome game, great attitude, is a good teammate / locker room guy, etc. He's not the problem in New Orleans.

He isn't the problem at all. But he also isn't the solution.

I don't buy that at all. With the right players around him, I think his team would be very good. I think he would be a huge solution for the Suns.

I guess that is my point. He can't carry a team by himself. So he needs the FO to build the right team around him to win. That is all I meant by him not being the solution.

Yeah, that's probably true. I guess we know it's true because he hasn't been able to do anything with that rag tag group in New Orleans yet a player like LeBron took those early Cleveland teams far. Makes me start wondering if there are any bigs that can do that. The closest example I can think of off the top of my head was Olajuwon in Houston but even he had a pretty good supporting cast.

[Split T]

I've never bought into that line about a player not being a winner. As Shel said, you lose until you win. The only guys who I can see the "loser" label attached to are guys whose attitude or game seems to directly result in that losing, such as maybe a Boogie Cousins. A.Davis has an awesome game, great attitude, is a good teammate / locker room guy, etc. He's not the problem in New Orleans.

He isn't the problem at all. But he also isn't the solution.

I don't buy that at all. With the right players around him, I think his team would be very good. I think he would be a huge solution for the Suns.

I guess that is my point. He can't carry a team by himself. So he needs the FO to build the right team around him to win. That is all I meant by him not being the solution.

Yeah, that's probably true. I guess we know it's true because he hasn't been able to do anything with that rag tag group in New Orleans yet a player like LeBron took those early Cleveland teams far. Makes me start wondering if there are any bigs that can do that. The closest example I can think of off the top of my head was Olajuwon in Houston but even he had a pretty good supporting cast.

It's interesting. Bigs need good guards to succeed. It's why the NBA seems to be shifting toward guard play and bigs with guard skills(Giannis) are incredibly valuable.

[In2ition]

He isn't the problem at all. But he also isn't the solution.

I don't buy that at all. With the right players around him, I think his team would be very good. I think he would be a huge solution for the Suns.

I guess that is my point. He can't carry a team by himself. So he needs the FO to build the right team around him to win. That is all I meant by him not being the solution.

Yeah, that's probably true. I guess we know it's true because he hasn't been able to do anything with that rag tag group in New Orleans yet a player like LeBron took those early Cleveland teams far. Makes me start wondering if there are any bigs that can do that. The closest example I can think of off the top of my head was Olajuwon in Houston but even he had a pretty good supporting cast.

It's interesting. Bigs need good guards to succeed. It's why the NBA seems to be shifting toward guard play and bigs with guard skills(Giannis) are incredibly valuable.

This is why I have some hope for Bender. He clearly has some guard skills. His immediate recognition of Jones ahead of the field and his outlet for a dunk was great, his taking the ball up the court and playing a short time of pg, his drive in from the 3pt line, and his entry pass into Williams, along with his quick release and good looking stroke from the outside(although it's a bit flat and he might be using a little of his off hand in his shot that can add to it not being as consistent). This is also why I hope the Suns land the #1 or #2 pick in this draft, then develop the bigs.

[carey]

https://twitter.com/WojVerticalNBA/status/852211363816636416