2017 NBA Draft Prospect Discussion

[TOO]

You can tell right away the confidence and "it" factor of players. You could tell Booker had it from day one. Same with Chriss, even if his was to a fault.

Porzingis had it right away. Even Kawhi, though quiet, played with intensity and an aggression about him.

Bender doesn't. He's just not that caliber of a player. You can tell he's scared out there. It takes more than talent to be a star, and it's not something that's learned.

Sir, I respectfully disagree. He looked like a kid, with no strength trying to fit in to a team with no direction. He went out, defended, took open shots, made the right pass and showed a very solid bbiq. If his shot were falling all year, people would be slobbering all over this guy.

[ShelC]

Something also tells me Watson didn't give him the same opportunities, encouragement, slack that Chriss got all year.

[carey]

Sir, I respectfully disagree. He looked like a kid, with no strength trying to fit in to a team with no direction. He went out, defended, took open shots, made the right pass and showed a very solid bbiq. If his shot were falling all year, people would be slobbering all over this guy.

Pretty much my take. He shot poorly so he sucked. Is what it is. We'll take a step closer to seeing what we have in him next year. I think with Len we already know what he's going to be. Very little progression (even regression in some areas) since his first year.

[carey]

Something also tells me Watson didn't give him the same opportunities, encouragement, slack that Chriss got all year.

Never once read that Watson thought Bender was going to be an all-time great like Chriss if that's what you mean.

[TOO]

Something also tells me Watson didn't give him the same opportunities, encouragement, slack that Chriss got all year.

100% agree with this. It seemed like no matter how bad Chriss looked (and he was a trash can a lot this year) Watson would stick with him.

[Cap]

His ceiling is Kirilenko? Is that a bad thing? I'd take that.

Yes. Maybe we have different expectations. People are here saying they have hope for Bender based off Giannis, who is on a different galaxy! His maximum potential is the best role player on your team.

I agree that Giannis is a poor comparison, and Kirilenko is a better one.

Nothing wrong with being "the best role player on your team." That's what Draymond Green is, and where would the Warriors be without him?

[specialsauce]

His ceiling is Kirilenko? Is that a bad thing? I'd take that.

Yes. Maybe we have different expectations. People are here saying they have hope for Bender based off Giannis, who is on a different galaxy! His maximum potential is the best role player on your team.

I agree that Giannis is a poor comparison, and Kirilenko is a better one.

Nothing wrong with being "the best role player on your team." That's what Draymond Green is, and where would the Warriors be without him?

Agree, nothing wrong with that. I would place him at the top of the assets I would dangle for any young budding superstar though. Along with Bled, Warren, and any assortment of our picks.

Book is just about as untouchable as it gets except for maybe 5-6 players in the league. I'd hold on to Chriss except for a huge offer as well.

[pickle]

I seem to have opened the Pandora's box with my AD comments, and then missed the great debate due to my time zone. But I'm inclined to drop a couple more comments on the topic.

I'm not panning AD in a "soft Euros can't win" way. I have a couple of reasons for my hesitation.

First, as I mentioned yesterday, AD seems to not want to play the 5. If this is indeed the case, and he's playing the 4, then his interior defense suffers because, invariably, in today's game he has to chase stretch 4s to the perimeter. This isn't even one of those cases of him playing 5 on D and 4 on O, since the stories are all about how he doesn't want to bang with the brutes down low, which mostly happens on D. Certainly the NO front office hasn't been great, but I am guessing AD needs to take at least some of the responsibility there. If they hadn't tried so hard to put a traditional 5 next to him, they wouldn't be saddled with the Asik contract and wouldn't need Ajinca on their roster to back up the oft-injured Asik. Of course there are other poor roster decisions that aren't AD's fault, but like Indy said, if you have to cater your team personnel around AD, then his appeal is a little less than a do-it-all superstar in the mold of a KAT.

My other concern was also mentioned by someone else, the fact that modern centers in the NBA are no longer effective cores of the offense -- you can no longer run offense through them, so they must depend on good guards. Guys who are smooth outside shooters are a little more immune to this, such as Porzingis, with a superior 3 point stroke, or Embiid for that matter, but for AD, his effective range is out to about 22 feet, so spacing is more cramped and you really need a pick and roll partner surrounded by 3 outside shooters, and players who are good at those skills who also defend well don't grow on trees. There are good passing centers still, like Gasol, or Jokic, or even Nurkic. But traditional skilled centers (i.e. not overwhelming physical presences like Jordan and Whiteside) like a Brook Lopez or a Vucevic are now just pieces to the puzzle rather than foundational building blocks to a true contending team.

So between the unwillingness to bang on D and his inability to stretch the floor on O, I am less enamored with AD than most people here seem to be. I still love him, he's still a supremely talented big man, but he's just not someone that I'm willing to give up Bledsoe, Warren, our pick this year, both Miami picks, and other assets for. If he can become a defensive anchor and not pine for a banger next to him, or if he can lead the offense like Jokic, then my tune changes, but for now I feel like the prices some of you guys are willing to pay for him are too steep for me.

[pickle]

On the Bender subject, I think it is waaaaaay to early to talk about trading him or anybody. He doesn't have that nastiness about him or the unconscious gunner attitude, but some would say that's a good thing. He may not be the guy who gets you points in crunch time, but we already have Booker for that and hopefully Warren/Chriss/new rookie; I'm perfectly happy if he's the reason we get to have that crunch time dilemma by playing very well in the first 46 minutes of any given game. If he turns out to be Kirilenko (minus the stat hunting) or Marion (minus the constant complaints), I'd be thrilled.

[carey]

Trier going back to U of A.
https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/852560499090771969

[Superbone]

Trier going back to U of A.
https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/852560499090771969

Tri, tri again.

[Cap]

Trier going back to U of A.
https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/852560499090771969

Tri, tri again.

3/10

[Split T]

If Arizona lands Bowen or Duval, they could be scary. Even still, Trier and Ayton should make a very good combo next year.

[In2ition]

If Arizona lands Bowen or Duval, they could be scary. Even still, Trier and Ayton should make a very good combo next year.

I have my questions about Duval, even though he's been rated as the best pg in his class. What's the chance that he even picks Arizona?

[3rdside]

Sir, I respectfully disagree. He looked like a kid, with no strength trying to fit in to a team with no direction. He went out, defended, took open shots, made the right pass and showed a very solid bbiq. If his shot were falling all year, people would be slobbering all over this guy.

Pretty much my take. He shot poorly so he sucked. Is what it is. We'll take a step closer to seeing what we have in him next year. I think with Len we already know what he's going to be. Very little progression (even regression in some areas) since his first year.

He was shooting .321% on 3pt shots pre injury, .475% on 2pt shots and .375% on FT's so he's not a dead duck yet, earlier PER stats be damned.

[Superbone]

Sir, I respectfully disagree. He looked like a kid, with no strength trying to fit in to a team with no direction. He went out, defended, took open shots, made the right pass and showed a very solid bbiq. If his shot were falling all year, people would be slobbering all over this guy.

Pretty much my take. He shot poorly so he sucked. Is what it is. We'll take a step closer to seeing what we have in him next year. I think with Len we already know what he's going to be. Very little progression (even regression in some areas) since his first year.

He was shooting .321% on 3pt shots pre injury, .475% on 2pt shots and .375% on FT's so he's not a dead duck yet, earlier PER stats be damned.

Nowhere to go but up!

[Split T]

If Arizona lands Bowen or Duval, they could be scary. Even still, Trier and Ayton should make a very good combo next year.

I have my questions about Duval, even though he's been rated as the best pg in his class. What's the chance that he even picks Arizona?

All I know about Duvall is ESPN has him rated as the 4th best prospect and he still has Arizona under consideration. So basically nothing.

[Shabazz]

I'm excited about who might potentially be available at 32.

[In2ition]

I'm excited about who might potentially be available at 32.

I agree. There could be a steal at this pick.

[carey]

There's always someone that drops. I'm looking at big men prospects right now wondering if we get our Len replacement there.

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