Game Day: Suns (0-2) @ Clippers (1-0), Sat 10/21/17

[Cap]

Here's a question - Would having Brandon Knight available make this team better or worse?

I honestly think Ulis and James are better, so giving one of their spots to BK would make us even worse, if that's possible.

[EDC]

Here's a question - Would having Brandon Knight available make this team better or worse?

I honestly think he would make the team better. James passes the ball better but Knight getting hot would keep us in games. Knight has this great ability to play well enough on some nights to make sure we are close at the end while still being unable to actually do enough to get the win. It really is an amazing talent.

It also wouldn't shock me if Knight bounces back to being very respectable under a new coach.

[AmareIsGod]

At least we have the Arizona Cardinals.

[Wally_West]

Anyone catch this during the game? Maybe Josh Jackson will end up being murderer after all.

https://streamable.com/gmhhq

[Superbone]

Booker looked gimpy.

He is.

Chandler looks done.

He is.

Suns look like butt.

Yup.

[Superbone]

Bledsoe looks like he doesn't give a s***.

Watson even went back to the Chandler-Len frontcourt. Results were as expected.

These guys never help on defense. Uncontested alley-oop after uncontested alley-oop. The defense is ATROCIOUS!!!

[Superbone]

wasn't there an AC Green team that lost the first 13 or so?
regardless, in over 25 years of Suns watching, this feels like the low point

This is the worst the Suns have ever been.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This may be the worst anyone has ever been. Remember that crappy Mavs team that started Derek Harper, Walter Bond, Doug Smith, Terry Davis, and Sean Rooks? They were on pace to set a record for futility, but Jim Jackson ended his holdout in March and helped them get to 11-71 so they were only the second-worst team ever. When they won their 10th game, ensuring they would only be the second-worst team ever, Jackson jumped up on the scorers table and celebrated like they'd just won the championship. This team may be worse than that one.

The next season they drafted Jamal Mashburn and won 13 games. Then they drafted Jason Kidd and won 36. Then 26, 24, 20, and 19.

I can seriously see this team setting the record for futility if things don't change soon. Look, I wanted the final tank but this is ridiculous. At least attempt to play the defensive side of the ball.

[Superbone]

It is nice to see the rest of the Phoenix Suns community finally seeing what I have seen from the beginning.

Well, aren't you so smart. Where's the barf emoticon when you need it?

[Superbone]

I don't think we're the only two to have realised that early (although quite how so many have been content with him is beyond me, so i feel your pain JWB).

You need to stop putting words into others' mouths. Who here has been "content" with him? To give him a chance is one thing but to be content with the results thus far is quite another. And "so many"? I'm one of the very few that even game him a chance. Most "knew" he was terrible before he coached even a single game as head coach. The truth is nobody knew how he would be as a coach. What most wanted was an experienced coach which he was not. Being the optimist that I am, I gave him a chance. I do like him as a person and how he interacts with his team but he obviously doesn't have the coaching chops to run an offense and his team's defense is atrocious and only seems to be getting worse.

The experiment should be over. It WAS a bad idea not to get an experienced coach in here to teach our young team the right way to play ON THE COURT. What are the chances a first time coach is any good? Not very high. I blame McDonough and even more so Sarver for going the cheap route in something that is VERY important for a good team. Sarver seems to be getting better but this was a very costly mistake with long term effects.

Who I will not blame is Watson for taking the head coaching job offered to him. It wasn't like Lindsey Hunter in the background making plans to take over with GM Lance Blanks. Watson even asked Hornacek for permission after he was fired. Watson is a very good guy and a terrible coach ON THE FLOOR. Giving him a chance once hired and being content are two vastly different things.

[Superbone]

The thing that bums me out is that we seem to be making poor choices in terms of talent evaluation. The bad coaching on this team is fixable (fire Watson) but losing good players and signing/keeping bad ones is harder to fix. A specific example is that we have really messed up on Alex Len. He looks like he's developed quite nicely and is becoming a great young center. But now he's essentially gone after this year as a UFA. We could have signed him, but we decided to play hardball, and now he'll leave. That's a huge loss since we have such a s*** big-man rotation right now. Losing our best center and arguably one of our best 2-3 players, who we invested years in developing and living through his developmental years, for nothing is a huge blunder.

The Dragic mistake was monumental too in my mind. It was so tough watching Dragic highlights last night where he lead his Miami team to a win. He played the right way and got others involved. Keeping Bledsoe and jettisoning Dragic was a HUGE mistake. I'm ready to blow up the front office and fire McDonough. I wish there was a way to dump Sarver but unfortunately, that's not possible. That's on Jerry Colangelo who also made a HUGE miscalculation in selling the team and he knows it.

[Cap]

That's on Jerry Colangelo who also made a HUGE miscalculation in selling the team and he knows it.

At the time, everybody was shocked at the price he got. He not only got more money than anybody expected, he got the new ownership to keep his son on as GM. I can't blame him for taking that deal, even if he regrets it with 20/20 hindsight.

[EDC]

It should be noted that in a business where success is measured by championships and players bust out all the time it is actually the easy bet to be negative about things. Just something to keep in mind.

[INFORMER]

The Dragic mistake was monumental too in my mind. It was so tough watching Dragic highlights last night where he lead his Miami team to a win. He played the right way and got others involved. Keeping Bledsoe and jettisoning Dragic was a HUGE mistake. I'm ready to blow up the front office and fire McDonough.

[specialsauce]

The thing that bums me out is that we seem to be making poor choices in terms of talent evaluation. The bad coaching on this team is fixable (fire Watson) but losing good players and signing/keeping bad ones is harder to fix. A specific example is that we have really messed up on Alex Len. He looks like he's developed quite nicely and is becoming a great young center. But now he's essentially gone after this year as a UFA. We could have signed him, but we decided to play hardball, and now he'll leave. That's a huge loss since we have such a s*** big-man rotation right now. Losing our best center and arguably one of our best 2-3 players, who we invested years in developing and living through his developmental years, for nothing is a huge blunder.

I'll disagree.

A solid turd looks golden in a sea of diarrhea. It's still poo.

[3rdside]

I don't think we're the only two to have realised that early (although quite how so many have been content with him is beyond me, so i feel your pain JWB).

You need to stop putting words into others' mouths. Who here has been "content" with him? To give him a chance is one thing but to be content with the results thus far is quite another. And "so many"? I'm one of the very few that even game him a chance. Most "knew" he was terrible before he coached even a single game as head coach. The truth is nobody knew how he would be as a coach. What most wanted was an experienced coach which he was not. Being the optimist that I am, I gave him a chance. I do like him as a person and how he interacts with his team but he obviously doesn't have the coaching chops to run an offense and his team's defense is atrocious and only seems to be getting worse.

The experiment should be over. It WAS a bad idea not to get an experienced coach in here to teach our young team the right way to play ON THE COURT. What are the chances a first time coach is any good? Not very high. I blame McDonough and even more so Sarver for going the cheap route in something that is VERY important for a good team. Sarver seems to be getting better but this was a very costly mistake with long term effects.

Who I will not blame is Watson for taking the head coaching job offered to him. It wasn't like L*****y H****r in the background making plans to take over with GM L___e B____s. Watson even asked Hornacek for permission after he was fired. Watson is a very good guy and a terrible coach ON THE FLOOR. Giving him a chance once hired and being content are two vastly different things.

And I'd suggest you stop putting words in my mouth...

Between JWB and myself who use this board and ASFN, I think you'll find (or at least could have found before this season started) plenty who were comfortable letting Watson 'grow into his role'; if they were more on ASFN than on here then forgive the generalisation. And when I said so many I didn't mean lots of people, I meant more than one might reasonably expect - it was a relative term.

On Watson himself, I was all for him when he was announced - he said exactly the right things for a 'millennial coach' - but his funky handling (IMO anyway) of the Booker vs Knight starter issue pre-last season, and then the record loss home opener that followed was a sharp indication of his inability. You do not, under any circumstance, play your first home game with fan level set at optimistic and deliver trash like that. He was DOA at that point and what happened with Knight next merely confirmed it.

I don't dislike the guy and I don't blame him for taking the job but forgive me for laying it on him because of his incompetence.

[ShelC]

You can't bullshit a bullshitter. Watson was a bullshitter. People fell in love with him because he won all of his interviews and "said all the right things". Except not a lot of those "right things" he said actually had to do with basketball Xs and Os. The top coaches in the league don't talk or act like that. They go out and do the job. The whole "family" thing and acting like a father-figure is/was bullshit. This is a job. It's a business. It's pro sports and the entire organization needs to start acting like it. If Bledsoe's heartbroken because Watson was fired, trade him. If Chriss is upset that Watson won't be taking him out to dinner anymore, ship his ass out. The whole Watson thing and TheTimeline nonsense stunk from the start and now we're right back where we started.

And what's more, we're making it very easy for Booker to look around and say, "This franchise is a joke. I'm not wasting my career here." We want to attract top free agents? We're doing everything we can to alienate our own young players.

[carey]

And what's more, we're making it very easy for Booker to look around and say, "This franchise is a joke. I'm not wasting my career here." We want to attract top free agents? We're doing everything we can to alienate our own young players.

Well, I'm pretty sure this move was made specifically with that in mind. We will not tolerate being embarrassed and non-competitive. I'd rather not start the Booker wants out narrative just yet though. I can only take so much as a fan.

[bajanguy008]

Ammm guys....

This is my favourite msg board because of the maturity level and just seems like good pplz to be honest. I mean we have a "Personal Life Thread" advising and encouraging each other (y). I observing some posts that let's say "have some bite" to them , I know most of us annoyed but I hope the board don't mainly become a pissing contest and I told you so vibe like so many other online forums

[Aztec Sunsfan]

Ammm guys....

This is my favourite msg board because of the maturity level and just seems like good pplz to be honest. I mean we have a "Personal Life Thread" advising and encouraging each other (y). I observing some posts that let's say "have some bite" to them , I know most of us annoyed but I hope the board don't mainly become a pissing contest and I told you so vibe like so many other online forums

I agree, there is a lot of anger flying around, and perfectly justified, but as always, name-calling and ill wishing upon the people doing their best for the team we love, is a line I don’t like to see traspassing, let’s keep it mature around here. Besides, to announce the Flood everyday, and eventually been right, does not make a prophet, not even an expert, just a blind squirrel that finally found an acorn. Everybody was aware of Watson’s shortcomings, but no one could have foreseen this awful start, so technically no one was right or wrong around here.

[O_Gardino]

Ammm guys....

This is my favourite msg board because of the maturity level and just seems like good pplz to be honest. I mean we have a "Personal Life Thread" advising and encouraging each other (y). I observing some posts that let's say "have some bite" to them , I know most of us annoyed but I hope the board don't mainly become a pissing contest and I told you so vibe like so many other online forums

I agree, there is a lot of anger flying around, and perfectly justified, but as always, name-calling and ill wishing upon the people doing their best for the team we love, is a line I don’t like to see traspassing, let’s keep it mature around here. Besides, to announce the Flood everyday, and eventually been right, does not make a prophet, not even an expert, just a blind squirrel that finally found an acorn. Everybody was aware of Watson’s shortcomings, but no one could have foreseen this awful start, so technically no one was right or wrong around here.

You guys are right. Thanks for the accountability. I know I let loose a bunch of bitchy posts yesterday, and I'm sorry I didn't filter myself better.

We all know it starts at the top, but we also know that's not likely to change anytime soon. So we gripe about things that are more likely to change: players, coaches, managers, and each other.