Suns News: Week 9 (12/16 - 12/22)

[In2ition]

Idk why the Suns would be tempted to place Dunn in a trade like that. IMO, he's going to be better and more valuable than Mikal in a couple years. He's going to be one of the best assets that the Suns have, if he isn't already.

[specialsauce]

Idk why the Suns would be tempted to place Dunn in a trade like that. IMO, he's going to be better and more valuable than Mikal in a couple years. He's going to be one of the best assets that the Suns have, if he isn't already.

Super unlikely.

Mikal is way more talented offensively. Like on a different planet. Dunn is shooting 31% from 3 after a fluke start to the year. He has zero midrange game to speak.

And this is an offense driven league at the end of the day on an individual talent basis.

Dunn is closer to Thybulle than Bridges.

[In2ition]

Idk why the Suns would be tempted to place Dunn in a trade like that. IMO, he's going to be better and more valuable than Mikal in a couple years. He's going to be one of the best assets that the Suns have, if he isn't already.

Super unlikely.

Mikal is way more talented offensively. Like on a different planet. Dunn is shooting 31% from 3 after a fluke start to the year. He has zero midrange game to speak.

And this is an offense driven league at the end of the day on an individual talent basis.

Dunn is closer to Thybulle than Bridges.

Idk, Mikal wasn't all that big of a mid-range shooter his first couple of years, iirc. The things I've seen from Dunn are that his game is expanding ever so slowly. Mikal also had the benefit of playing a couple more years at Villanova too.

[Ring_Wanted]

My worry is we lose Dunn or Oso in a Butler trade....and I think we'd end up regretting that...

I thought the 2nd apron forbade us from packaging players together in any trade. Am I understanding it correctly? If we -are- allowed to package other players, this is exactly the sort of sweetener Miami would ask for. Unlikely that we could get Butler without giving up at least one of our rookies, which would be a real shame.

We are not allowed to package players, but you can build the trade in separated moves. Things would be a bit more complex since MIA is over the first apron so they can't take more salary than they send out and any guy they use as filler for Dunn/Oso would have to go to a third team if they make more than our guys. For instance, Beal-Butler (plus JRich) is one move, then they send out Alec Burks for Dunn. Still doable, just a bit more challenging. In any case, we should hang up the phone if MIA demands either Dunn or Oso.

[Mori Chu]

Idk why the Suns would be tempted to place Dunn in a trade like that. IMO, he's going to be better and more valuable than Mikal in a couple years. He's going to be one of the best assets that the Suns have, if he isn't already.

I love me some Ryan Dunn, and I can see the comparison to a degree, but he has a long way to go to be as good or valuable as Mikal Bridges. Bridges is and has always been a much better offensive player. It is kind of interesting to compare their rookie stats:

Mikal averaged 8.3 ppg on .430 / .335 / .805 splits along with 3.2 reb, 2.1 ast, 1.6 stl, 0.5 blk.
Dunn averages 6.2 ppg on .429 / .316 / .417 (!) splits along with 2.6 reb, 0.7 ast, 0.5 stl, 0.6 blk.

I can see the argument that the shooting stats (outside of FT%) are vaguely similar, but Dunn's 3pt% is a bit more concerning because he seemed to get hot for 2-3 weeks and is now regressing to the mean. Also, over the course of his first 2-3 years Mikal grows rapidly as a player; Dunn would have to improve a lot to get into Mikal territory. Also the 1.6 steals is a hint as to what a complete pest Mikal was on D as a rookie. Dunn is also a great defender but I would trade him for rookie Mikal any day of the week.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... gmi01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... nry01.html

[specialsauce]

Exactly. We're talking about some cute development guys at this stage of their careers. I won't lose sleep over losing them for the right trade. I don't WANT to trade them, but this wouldn't be us losing a bonafide young star. Especially Oso. He's nowhere close to being a full time rotational guy at this stage without much of an offensive game to speak of at all. He has no post moves, no J, he's not particularly big. Again a promising young talent who would have to have exponential growth to reach his potential. More times than not, that doesn't happen.

[In2ition]

Idk why the Suns would be tempted to place Dunn in a trade like that. IMO, he's going to be better and more valuable than Mikal in a couple years. He's going to be one of the best assets that the Suns have, if he isn't already.

I love me some Ryan Dunn, and I can see the comparison to a degree, but he has a long way to go to be as good or valuable as Mikal Bridges. Bridges is and has always been a much better offensive player. It is kind of interesting to compare their rookie stats:

Mikal averaged 8.3 ppg on .430 / .335 / .805 splits along with 3.2 reb, 2.1 ast, 1.6 stl, 0.5 blk.
Dunn averages 6.2 ppg on .429 / .316 / .417 (!) splits along with 2.6 reb, 0.7 ast, 0.5 stl, 0.6 blk.

I can see the argument that the shooting stats (outside of FT%) are vaguely similar, but Dunn's 3pt% is a bit more concerning because he seemed to get hot for 2-3 weeks and is now regressing to the mean. Also, over the course of his first 2-3 years Mikal grows rapidly as a player; Dunn would have to improve a lot to get into Mikal territory. Also the 1.6 steals is a hint as to what a complete pest Mikal was on D as a rookie. Dunn is also a great defender but I would trade him for rookie Mikal any day of the week.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... gmi01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... nry01.html

You have a point, and I thought Ryan was younger than Mikal at the same time. Mikal's insane length definitely helps with his steals numbers. Mikal also played a lot more minutes than Ryan is currently. Ryan's blocks numbers are better and his rebounding numbers are better if we are comparing per36.

[Wally_West]

Not sure what the offensive potential of Dunn will be. Hes already made so many strides offensively compared to what many people thought he was going into the draft. Him being mid from 3 after being absolute trash just a year ago is already a huge win. Hes tall, athletic and clearly has the work ethic and drive to improve, not sure what his ceiling will ultimately be.

I don’t think he’ll be a 20pt scorer but in a few years I could see him averaging 12-15 points consistently.


Defensively, the sky is the limit. He has all the tools to be a top defender in the league. Comparing him to Mikal, he’s taller, more athletic, stronger and just as long as he was. I’m excited to see what he does these next few years. Him and Oso.

[specialsauce]

Ryan's FT numbers are extremely concerning. I've never seen a player be a consistent offensive perimeter player who sucks ass at free throws

[AmareIsGod]

Ryan's FT numbers are extremely concerning. I've never seen a player be a consistent offensive perimeter player who sucks ass at free throws

Ben Wallace figured it out.

[TOO]

Ryan's FT numbers are extremely concerning. I've never seen a player be a consistent offensive perimeter player who sucks ass at free throws

Ben Wallace figured it out.

I might be Ben Wallace's biggest fan, I don't know if he could play in today's game.

[Split T]

I think I’d draw the line at including Dunn or Oso…but while I wouldn’t want to, I’d include 31. That’s far enough out that I think we can go all in for 1.5 years, dump Booker to Houston if it fails, to get our picks back, then tank for a few years to be good again by 2031.

[specialsauce]

Ryan's FT numbers are extremely concerning. I've never seen a player be a consistent offensive perimeter player who sucks ass at free throws

Ben Wallace figured it out.

Bro are you being funny? Lol

[Mori Chu]

I think I’d draw the line at including Dunn or Oso…but while I wouldn’t want to, I’d include 31. That’s far enough out that I think we can go all in for 1.5 years, dump Booker to Houston if it fails, to get our picks back, then tank for a few years to be good again by 2031.

IMO there's no way Miami considers a Butler / Beal trade without our 2031 1st being in the trade. And my guess is that before long, Ishbia and JJ will surrender it. Even that might not be enough to get a deal done given than Jimmy is having big games while Beal is already getting hurt.

[Superbone]

My worry is we lose Dunn or Oso in a Butler trade....and I think we'd end up regretting that...

Shut your mouth! That would be like Camara all over again.

[Superbone]

Idk why the Suns would be tempted to place Dunn in a trade like that. IMO, he's going to be better and more valuable than Mikal in a couple years. He's going to be one of the best assets that the Suns have, if he isn't already.

I love me some Ryan Dunn, and I can see the comparison to a degree, but he has a long way to go to be as good or valuable as Mikal Bridges. Bridges is and has always been a much better offensive player. It is kind of interesting to compare their rookie stats:

Mikal averaged 8.3 ppg on .430 / .335 / .805 splits along with 3.2 reb, 2.1 ast, 1.6 stl, 0.5 blk.
Dunn averages 6.2 ppg on .429 / .316 / .417 (!) splits along with 2.6 reb, 0.7 ast, 0.5 stl, 0.6 blk.

I can see the argument that the shooting stats (outside of FT%) are vaguely similar, but Dunn's 3pt% is a bit more concerning because he seemed to get hot for 2-3 weeks and is now regressing to the mean. Also, over the course of his first 2-3 years Mikal grows rapidly as a player; Dunn would have to improve a lot to get into Mikal territory. Also the 1.6 steals is a hint as to what a complete pest Mikal was on D as a rookie. Dunn is also a great defender but I would trade him for rookie Mikal any day of the week.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... gmi01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... nry01.html

The thing I like about Dunn is his quick learning ability. I even noticed he was shooting his FTs much better last game. He even swished two in a row. The dude is a hard worker and quick learner. I hope he's here for a long time. Always seems to make an impact when he's in.

[Carno]

I think I’d draw the line at including Dunn or Oso…but while I wouldn’t want to, I’d include 31. That’s far enough out that I think we can go all in for 1.5 years, dump Booker to Houston if it fails, to get our picks back, then tank for a few years to be good again by 2031.

IMO there's no way Miami considers a Butler / Beal trade without our 2031 1st being in the trade. And my guess is that before long, Ishbia and JJ will surrender it. Even that might not be enough to get a deal done given than Jimmy is having big games while Beal is already getting hurt.

I don't get this thinking. Beal and Butler are comparable players. Suns aren't sending trash. I don't see a reason to send the '31 pick, which could be very valuable. Maybe I get on board with a 2nd, but I still think these players are about equal.

It really feels like this board undervalues Suns players and by a lot.

[In2ition]

I think I’d draw the line at including Dunn or Oso…but while I wouldn’t want to, I’d include 31. That’s far enough out that I think we can go all in for 1.5 years, dump Booker to Houston if it fails, to get our picks back, then tank for a few years to be good again by 2031.

IMO there's no way Miami considers a Butler / Beal trade without our 2031 1st being in the trade. And my guess is that before long, Ishbia and JJ will surrender it. Even that might not be enough to get a deal done given than Jimmy is having big games while Beal is already getting hurt.

I don't get this thinking. Beal and Butler are comparable players. Suns aren't sending trash. I don't see a reason to send the '31 pick, which could be very valuable. Maybe I get on board with a 2nd, but I still think these players are about equal.

It really feels like this board undervalues Suns players and by a lot.

I agree, but I think it's about the contract and how it's valued by each organization. I think that the Suns sign Jimmy to a $100 mil contract extension, but Miami may want out of the apron and value the cap space or tax relief.

[AmareIsGod]

I think I’d draw the line at including Dunn or Oso…but while I wouldn’t want to, I’d include 31. That’s far enough out that I think we can go all in for 1.5 years, dump Booker to Houston if it fails, to get our picks back, then tank for a few years to be good again by 2031.

IMO there's no way Miami considers a Butler / Beal trade without our 2031 1st being in the trade. And my guess is that before long, Ishbia and JJ will surrender it. Even that might not be enough to get a deal done given than Jimmy is having big games while Beal is already getting hurt.

I don't get this thinking. Beal and Butler are comparable players. Suns aren't sending trash. I don't see a reason to send the '31 pick, which could be very valuable. Maybe I get on board with a 2nd, but I still think these players are about equal.

It really feels like this board undervalues Suns players and by a lot.

I think availability is more important than ability for the top tier players. Beal is a fringe top tier play with very low availability, which kills a ton of his value.

[Superbone]

If Jimmy makes us a priority, it ties the Heat's hands more for what they can get for him, I would think. But then again, the Suns easily buckled in the Durant trade and that's on Ishbia. Hopefully, he has learned from that.