Phx-Suns.Net

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 27, 2023 4:02 am

For the “this is on Monty” crowd.

I think his only error was the end of first quarter lineup that was a disaster. Missed open shots and defensive lapses hurt the Suns more while the Mavs hit several tough shots.

End of the day, it’s one game in January. Don’t overreact.

It was definitely a frustrating loss but you're right. Hopefully, we'll learn from it. But yeah, we actually started off the game well and that end of first quarter run ruined our momentum and then we were never the same.

Listen very carefully, Jeremy. You are wrong on this one.

Everyone knows he's a disappointment. Ayton knows he's a disappointment, it's the fact that he doesn't seem to care. A lot of people knew this was coming after his interview when he said he wanted to make sure he got paid in his second contract. Only the fools have blinders.

If Ayton just fucking dunked the basketball with authority when he has a dunk in front of him, I'd have far less of a problem with him. That still doesn't answer for the inconsistent and bad defense this season.

The thing with Ayton is what the team wants him to be and what he wants to be are different things. He’s been willing to sacrifice that in the past for the betterment of the team, but that seems to no longer be the case now that he got paid.

I do think he legitimately believes the team would be better if they used him the way Jeremy wants him to be used. I disagree but we really don’t know for certain. He’s an efficient scorer so I think getting him the ball in positions to score should be a high priority. I just don’t think that’s as easy as some think. It would be so much easier if he knew how to dribble and get himself into good spots.

My biggest issue now is if he’s not gonna play defense, what’s the point in playing him? He’s essentially Jusuf Nurkic or Nikola Vucevic out there with how he’s defending. We don’t need a finesse big who doesn’t dribble, pass, or defend. I don’t care how efficient he is. I’d be fine with him on the max if he played every game like the 2021 playoffs or the Pelicans series last year, but he’s shown he’s not going to do that.

David Nash on Twitter had a nice thread about some revealing plays. Ish took two 3s on back to back plays(he was wide open) and Ayton was upset because they were a bit rushed and Ayton had decent position. After the first one, Ayton just slowly strolled back on defense and Ish had to cover Ayton’s man, coming up with a steal. After the 2nd one Ayton just stood there uninterested in fighting for the O-board and CamJ came in and got it.

To me, Ayton can be upset about touches when he’s giving a full effort on hustle plays. I agree it’s a little bit of a chicken or the egg situation and maybe Ish shouldn’t have fired up those shots so quick, but at least Ish is always hustling. The same can’t be said for Ayton.

It all just leads me to Ayton not wanting to be here long term. I don’t think he feels appreciated by management and the coaching staff and it shows on the court. I think he likes his teammates and I do think he’ll play harder and give us what we need in the playoffs, but I do think he’s quietly hoping he gets traded somewhere that will let him play the way he wants. I’m sure his first choice would be to play the way he wants here, but he’d choose play the way he wants elsewhere over sacrifice for the team here.

I do still think he’d command a better return in the offseason, but if there’s a chance to bring in a significant player for him by the trade deadline, I wouldn’t hesitate to do that.

Here’s the Twitter stuff I mentioned in the post above

One time Wainright didn't shoot an open three I thought I heard Ayton yell, "Shoot the f'n ball!" minus the contraction.

One of my big pet peeves is that Ayton has never learned to box out properly. He just uses his athleticism to jump for the rebound and tip it to himself. This is why Powell and others consistently get around him for the rebound.

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 27, 2023 11:37 am

If Ayton just fucking dunked the basketball with authority when he has a dunk in front of him, I'd have far less of a problem with him. That still doesn't answer for the inconsistent and bad defense this season.

I don't even care if he scored 10ppg if he just committed to being a defensive menace like Ben Wallace was. He's got the tools, just lacks the heart.

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:30 am

I'm dealing with some post-Covid health issues so I don't need any extra sources of stress right now. I made things more personal than I like to last night as well. My apologies. Perhaps I'll be back after the trade deadline, when hopefully things will have settled down a bit in the Suns world.

Sorry to hear about your Covid struggles. Take care of yourself and get back to 100%. The Ayton discussions will always be here when you're ready. This is just basketball.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 27, 2023 2:38 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:30 am

I'm dealing with some post-Covid health issues so I don't need any extra sources of stress right now. I made things more personal than I like to last night as well. My apologies. Perhaps I'll be back after the trade deadline, when hopefully things will have settled down a bit in the Suns world.

Sorry to hear about your Covid struggles. Take care of yourself and get back to 100%. The Ayton discussions will always be here when you're ready. This is just basketball.

This. We definitely don't agree on much but having had covid again a couple of months ago I do not wish that shit on anyone. Hang in there man.

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:30 am

4. This is it for me. I'm taking a break from the forum for a while. Talking about the Suns has become more stressful than fun lately, and I'm dealing with some post-Covid health issues so I don't need any extra sources of stress right now. I made things more personal than I like to last night as well. My apologies. Perhaps I'll be back after the trade deadline, when hopefully things will have settled down a bit in the Suns world.

Enjoy the unmitigated Hayton Fest while I'm gone. (Jk I know it won't quite be 100% negative )

Sorry you haven't been feeling well. I hope you'll come back and post again when you feel ready. I value your presence here and I think you are a good sport about taking a lot of flak from other folks here for your views about Ayton and the team. But your opinions are valid and you are always welcome to be here and talk about the team. We'll be here if you get to a place where you want to hang out and talk Suns with us again.

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 27, 2023 8:41 am

Carno wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 27, 2023 8:37 am

Ok, I get the criticism for Ayton. His defense this year has been terrible. But c'mon, this isn't the game to pile on him. He clearly was not recovered from his illness.

Frankly, the "others" deserve more criticism, imo. Craig, Wainright, Lee, Lee, DWJ, Okogie, and Bizzy were all BAD...like really BAD. Mikal was a ghost most of the game. Only Cam and CP3 showed up.

He continues to not give two shits about D. He had no interest in rotating, contesting shots, etc.

On offense, he’s completely content not backing down someone half his size and instead shooting immediately upon getting the ball to avoid any contact that would hurt his feelings

There was definitely some of that (RE: clips on social media), but he was also contesting shots poorly - if that makes sense. I lost track of the number of times he'd "close" on a drive that did nothing but open an easy pass for a layup. Sometimes that's poor team defense, but it happened too many times for it to be the only reason. He was getting out played mentally on the defensive end.

ShelC wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 26, 2023 9:00 pm

Monty playing with some lineups. Dario at the 5 didn't work, he'd been playing better as a 4 next to Jock and Biz.

Yeah, I don't like that Monty went away from what has been working the last three games. Wish he had stuck with the Landale/Saric pairing.

Wally_West wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:53 pm

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:50 pm

Looks like Jeremy replied to Big Perk.

But he’s not wrong tho lol. Perk gets too much credit for just being tall and fat

Classic ad hominem. Who Perk was as a player doesn't really have anything to do with what he was saying.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 27, 2023 11:48 pm

Wally_West wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:53 pm

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:50 pm

Looks like Jeremy replied to Big Perk.

But he’s not wrong tho lol. Perk gets too much credit for just being tall and fat

Classic ad hominem. Who Perk was as a player doesn't really have anything to do with what he was saying.

Right and he wasn't wrong. But to Wally's credit, he agreed with the sentiment.

If you had to be a good basketball player to comment on basketball, what are we all doing here? I think I’m probably safe to assume no one played in the nba that is on this board, we’d have to shut it down.

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 28, 2023 9:33 am

If you had to be a good basketball player to comment on basketball, what are we all doing here? I think I’m probably safe to assume no one played in the nba that is on this board, we’d have to shut it down.

Alright, Split. You and me. One on one. Let's go!

I’m down haha

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 28, 2023 9:33 am

If you had to be a good basketball player to comment on basketball, what are we all doing here? I think I’m probably safe to assume no one played in the nba that is on this board, we’d have to shut it down.

Jae Crowder briefly posted here.

Shabazz wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 28, 2023 9:42 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 28, 2023 9:33 am

If you had to be a good basketball player to comment on basketball, what are we all doing here? I think I’m probably safe to assume no one played in the nba that is on this board, we’d have to shut it down.

Jae Crowder briefly posted here.

JAKE ROWDER.!