Phx-Suns.Net

Tyus just isn’t a threat to score on the ball, that’s why we have to get it to KD/Book.

And you’re right Shel about some of those numbers…but the numbers don’t show KD holding for 6-8 seconds…he’s holding the ball the least of our main guys.

As for the changing in game plan…I think it’s probably a lot to do with what the defense is doing. A lot of our stuff is likely based around a more typical defense…teams just start switching everything and it throws our game plan off…our go to when teams switch is to isolate. Take advantage of the mismatch..

I also think we’d be surprised to see how little we actually isolate. I’ll look up the numbers in a bit

One quick stat:

The suns have 1 player in the top 50 for isolation frequency…it’s Kevin Durant at 13th(18% of the time). No other player in the top 50….also KD is 3rd of those top 50 in points per isolation attempt.

Booker is 64th in frequency and Beal is 100th…we simply don’t isolate as much as some of you think.

We are 19th as a team in isolation frequency and one of 3 teams getting at least 1.00 points per isolation possession. Boston is 1st at 1.02, OKC and us are at 1.00.

The isolation stuff is not a problem…if anything the numbers say we should do it more and give KD more specifically.

I’d be curious about how they define an isolation possession. I think different people would have different views on what meets the criteria.

Gladiator wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 21, 2025 3:02 pm

I’d be curious about how they define an isolation possession. I think different people would have different views on what meets the criteria.

I agree…I think what a lot of people are meaning when they say isolation is probably being defined differently

I consider isolation as giving the ball to a player who is not immediately in a position to score and expecting him to create and take his own shot.

Every team has the ability to generate easy shots for its players it seems except for us

Here’s the breakdown of our top guys by play type:

Isolation:

KD 17.8%(1.13 ppp)
Book 8.6%(.95 ppp)
Beal 6.6%(.85 ppp)
Tyus .3%(1.00 ppp)

Post-ups:

KD 7.4%(1.10)
Booker 3.3%(1.33)

Spot-Up:
Grayson 47.5%(1.28)
Tyus 38.5%(1.15)
Beal 24.1%(1.07)
KD 17.8%(1.11)
Booker 14.4%(.96)

PNR Ball Handler:

Tyus 28.6%(.90)
Booker 27.2%(.93)
Beal 25.7%(.81)
KD 17.6%(.92)
Grayson 9.4%(.63)

PNR Roll-man

Grayson 6.0%(.79)
KD 5.3%(1.14)
Beal 3.4%(1.12)
Booker 2.6%(1.17)
Tyus 2.5%(1.27)

Transition

Booker 19.2%(1.16)
Beal 16.7%(1.16)
Grayson 16.4%(1.33)
Tyus 15.0%(1.12)
KD 14.3%(1.32)

Handoffs

Beal 7.0%(1.26)
Grayson 5.3%(.88)
Booker 4.7%(1.00)
Tyus 2.9%(1.15)
KD 2.4%(1.05)

Cuts

Beal 5.0%(1.48)
KD 3.3%(1.31)
Booker 2.1%(1.32)

Off Screens:

Booker 12.1%(1.19)
KD 9.8%(.94)
Grayson 8.5%(1.44)
Beal 5.2%(.96)

My takeaways:

Let KD cook in isolation. Finding Grayson or Tyus in spot up situations is ideal…more guards setting screens and rolling, no more Grayson self creation(spot up, off screens, transition), and Beal needs to cook off ball(handoffs and cuts).

The big 3 have underwhelming spot up numbers.

Our offense is the least of our worries. Our defense, defensive rebounding, and frequent turnovers are the bulk of our issues. Can't beat anybody when they are given an additional 20+ opportunities each night.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 21, 2025 3:37 pm

Our offense is the least of our worries. Our defense, defensive rebounding, and frequent turnovers are the bulk of our issues. Can't beat anybody when they are given an additional 20+ opportunities each night.

Agreed…think rebounding and defense are top 2 issues…plus the tendency to spiral with turnovers

Split T wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 21, 2025 12:33 pm

I guess I just don’t see what you guys see. They don’t ignore the pg. They don’t force it against double teams…ya KD turns it over too much, but Booker rarely does.

Here’s some interesting stats:

Total touches per game:

Booker - 69
Tyus - 69
Durant - 66
Beal - 60

Front court touches:

Booker - 47
Durant - 45
Beal - 33
Tyus - 26

Time of Possession:

Tyus - 4.8 minutes
Booker - 4.6 minutes
Durant - 3.7 minutes
Beal - 3.6 minutes

TOP per Touch:

Tyus - 4.23 seconds
Booker - 3.95 seconds
Beal - 3.53 seconds
Durant - 3.33 seconds.

Where do people want that Tyus number? I assume it’s the front court touches part people want to go up…who’s touches are you taking away?

Where do you get these numbers? I’d like to see how they compare to other teams.

I appreciate all the helpful stats, and I don't want to sound dismissive of them. But I watch the games and see Tyus bring the ball up, dribble it for a couple seconds, and then just feed it to KD. Over and over and over. Technically yes Tyus has possession of the ball, but he doesn't really initiate anything. He usually doesn't even get it to KD in a good position to make a scoring move; it's more of a handoff or short pass to KD outside or just on the 3-point line. Sometimes Tyus passes to somebody else instead, but then usually the ball swings back to Tyus or KD, and once it swings to KD, it sticks. KD then fakes, steps, wiggle wiggle, dribble dribble, shimmy shimmy, and then either falls down, gets stripped, or goes up for a shot.

That's basically our offense in a nutshell. KD is such a brilliant scorer that such an offense is actually not all THAT bad. But the losing the ball and turnovers hurt a lot, and not maximizing the other players on the court hurts too. IMO this type of "hand it to KD and let him cook" offense is a last-few-minutes offense, mixed with some Booker in there. The other 45-46 minutes we need to be running more plays, more passing, more motion, more cutting, more inside-outside, more layups and open 3s. Not shimmy-shimmy contested 3s and long 2s. Even if it's brilliant scorers taking them.

Here ya go Cap:

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches

Fun fact, our most frequent play type is spot up shooting…both in terms of overall frequency and how much we do it compared to other teams…we also take a lot of off screen shots. We are way low on isolation. It just doesn’t happen as much as you guys think