Phx-Suns.Net

If anybody within the Pacers' org leaked that, they're stupid. Indiana and Vogel don't need distractions like that during the playoffs. Or if the reporter is making up his "sources", that's lame, too.

I don't know what I think of Vogel as a coach. Do you guys think he bears a big part of the blame for the Pacers' general malaise and slump? Would they really be better going after another coach? Vogel was the darling of the league for his first 1-2 years as Pacers head coach.

There's 3 things wrong with Indy that I've surmised none of which is his fault and all of which he'll get the blame for.

1. Hibbert has been an unqualified disaster this year.
2. Paul George regressed.
3. Stephenson thinks he's option 1 when he's more like option 3.

I do think there's a bit of a leadership vacuum there. It's possible another coach would corral the troops better. But I can't say for sure.

I don't think it has anything to do with coaching. I think the players need to be more accountable.

I had no idea that Lakers fans hated D'Antoni as much as they do. I mean they HATE the guy. I'm not sure what they expected from that team last year with all the injuries (and that roster), but man... there's a lot of shade being thrown his way.

I agree that D'antoni is kinda getting a bad wrap this yr, but he brings some of the hatred on himself, because he comes across as smug.

Also I think he was a bit overrated as a coach in his time here. He was very stubborn about defense and "his" ways, and lets be honest, Nash made EVERYONE, including him, look alot better then they were.

Tim Thomas & Steven Hunter are the first two that come to mind

Re Frank Voegl: I think a lot of the locker room tension comes from Lance Stephenson. He has been rumored to have been in two separate scuffles with Turner and Hill and is said to be a Larry Bird favorite.

I like Vogel as a coach and don't think he should shoulder most of the blame.

Vogel's offense leaves a lot to be desired. Most of their players underperform in it.

Sunsfan4life wrote:Re Frank Voegl: I think a lot of the locker room tension comes from Lance Stephenson. He has been rumored to have been in two separate scuffles with Turner and Hill and is said to be a Larry Bird favorite.

I like Vogel as a coach and don't think he should shoulder most of the blame.

he is NOT a larry bird favorite.

i wonder if the pacers will make paul george available if the pacers gets humiliated by the hawks in the first round.

haha... atlanta vs washington.

The problem with the pacers is mostly personnel. George Hill shouldn't be their starting PG (or anyone's). Lance thinks he's a 1st option and he's a 3rd option, everyone was quick to annoint Paul George as a #1 type superstar but he's a great #2. Hibbert has always suffered from confidence issues and the fact that he can't always match up with opponents, but i think they're under utilizing him.

They should be playing through him and DWest and then letting George and Stephenson play off their post presence. So to that end, Vogel is responsible. But he shouldn't be fired.

I saw people on another site saying that Kevin Durant would be great on the Wizards. That's probably true, but imagine KD on a team like the Pacers that badly needs a go-to scorer. Though I think the wrong thing for them to do would be to make panic trades this summer. Yes, they had major problems, but they also started out like 33-7 and looked like a juggernaut for about half the season. Patience is a virtue in the NBA when you have a young and very talented roster. I say just let them figure it out, rather than trying to band-aid the issue with trades and coach firings.

what if bird fired vogel now and made mcmillan the interim head coach?

ShelC wrote:The problem with the pacers is mostly personnel. George Hill shouldn't be their starting PG (or anyone's).

Agreed. Hill's a solid player, but he's best used as a third guard like in San Antonio. I've said this for the last few years, Indiana has messed up in that they've overpaid nearly every player they have: Hill, Hibbert, and West are all making anywhere from $2-4 million than what they should be.

And props to San Antonio for looking to the draft and identifying a prospect they like and having the guts to pull trade a "proven" veteran. I wonder how many Spurs fans ridiculed the Spurs front office for trading a proven vet like Hill for an unproven mid-1st round rookie.

I was hot for Leonard that year

Many were. If I remember correctly, it was shocking that he fell to #15 and the Spurs were applauded for turning an impending problem in Hill's extension, into what could be the steal of the draft.

INFORMER wrote:I've said this for the last few years, Indiana has messed up in that they've overpaid nearly every player they have: Hill, Hibbert, and West are all making anywhere from $2-4 million than what they should be.

INF, do you think maybe they have to do a bit of that, since they're a small-market team? It must be hard to keep players in Indy without overpaying them a little. For example, Hibbert makes his current money because Portland agreed to pay him that, and Indy matched. I agree that their guys have hefty salaries, but it's still impressive that they have kept that core together.

Ring_Wanted wrote:Many were. If I remember correctly, it was shocking that he fell to #15 and the Spurs were applauded for turning an impending problem in Hill's extension, into what could be the steal of the draft.

I turned off the Tv when we passed on him. I was so mad.

Mori Chu wrote:

INFORMER wrote:I've said this for the last few years, Indiana has messed up in that they've overpaid nearly every player they have: Hill, Hibbert, and West are all making anywhere from $2-4 million than what they should be.

INF, do you think maybe they have to do a bit of that, since they're a small-market team?

I don't know if I buy that. It's not like any of those guys had big market teams lined-up wanting to pay them.

Mori Chu wrote:For example, Hibbert makes his current money because Portland agreed to pay him that, and Indy matched.

And boy is Portland better for it. Give me RoLo at mid-level money over Hibbert at max money any day of the week.

Yeah, when they are struggling to beat the Hawks. But when they were playing all time defense he wasn't a problem. Their problem is not Hibbert, overpaid as he may be. It's George Hill. He has no business making 8M on a team who is reluctant to enter l-tax territory.