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I think you are using Ayton's height in shows, and Bamba barefoot. He measured over 7' in shoes at the combine. And how in the heck does Ayton only have a 7' wingspan when he is 7'1"? Short arms?Vladimir_Taltos wrote: ↑Sun May 27, 2018 4:16 amBamba, 6'11", 225
FT % 68.1%
BPG 3.7!
Ayton, 7'1", 250
FT % 73%
BPG 1.9
Ayton’s wingspan has been reported as 7’5”.Indy wrote: ↑Mon May 28, 2018 12:09 pmI think you are using Ayton's height in shows, and Bamba barefoot. He measured over 7' in shoes at the combine. And how in the heck does Ayton only have a 7' wingspan when he is 7'1"? Short arms?Vladimir_Taltos wrote: ↑Sun May 27, 2018 4:16 amBamba, 6'11", 225
FT % 68.1%
BPG 3.7!
Ayton, 7'1", 250
FT % 73%
BPG 1.9
Something to think about for you #1 Doncic people."The best way to beat Golden State is probably not to out-Golden State them."
Erik Spoelstra
It was from wikipedia. Not sure why. I did see his 7'4.5" after looking around. But I also saw he was 7'0" in shoes, not 7'1". Not sure which is accurate, since he skipped the combine.Cap wrote: ↑Mon May 28, 2018 12:17 pmAyton’s wingspan has been reported as 7’5”.Indy wrote: ↑Mon May 28, 2018 12:09 pmI think you are using Ayton's height in shows, and Bamba barefoot. He measured over 7' in shoes at the combine. And how in the heck does Ayton only have a 7' wingspan when he is 7'1"? Short arms?Vladimir_Taltos wrote: ↑Sun May 27, 2018 4:16 amBamba, 6'11", 225
FT % 68.1%
BPG 3.7!
Ayton, 7'1", 250
FT % 73%
BPG 1.9
Never ask Google for a wingspan. For some reason, they round to the nearest foot.
But people are saying that going with Ayton is a choice that doesn't match with how the league is trending. I think it's more of an anti-Ayton than anything to do with Doncic.
And some people in the the pro-Ayton crowd interpret "how the league is trending" to mean "I want to copy the Warriors."Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Mon May 28, 2018 10:27 pmBut people are saying that going with Ayton is a choice that doesn't match with how the league is trending. I think it's more of an anti-Ayton than anything to do with Doncic.
It's also about evolution in skills. There are a lot more three-point threats in the league today, especially among big men, than there used to be. Putting two or even all three front court players behind the arc is a lot more practical than it used to be.Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 10:24 amI don't think the shift away from big men is a "fad" or a "trend." I think it's an evolution, unlikely to revert.
The current NBA is much more data-driven than in the past. It's less about trends and preferences of players or GMs. It's more about stat nerds realizing that corner 3s and layups and fast ball movement actually demonstrably delivers higher expected value than post ups, big man inside-out play, iso ball, and other such styles. We didn't play that way before because coaches and GMs didn't have this data and had to go with their gut more often. And their guts were not correct.
I don't see the Rockets as playing anything like the warriors. I guess you could say they both shoot a lot of 3s, but that is about it.Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 10:24 amI don't think the shift away from big men is a "fad" or a "trend." I think it's an evolution, unlikely to revert.
The current NBA is much more data-driven than in the past. It's less about trends and preferences of players or GMs. It's more about stat nerds realizing that corner 3s and layups and fast ball movement actually demonstrably delivers higher expected value than post ups, big man inside-out play, iso ball, and other such styles. We didn't play that way before because coaches and GMs didn't have this data and had to go with their gut more often. And their guts were not correct.
I don't care at all about beating the Warriors. As others have said, they won't be the same team any more by the time we are (hopefully) trying to contend. Also, a Houston team that plays a very similar style to the Warriors just came one bad quarter away from beating Golden State and advancing to the Finals. They have only one big man of any import on the roster, Capela, and he's a role player. I don't know how one could look at this WCF and conclude that "nobody is ever going to out-Warriors the Warriors." It just came a few shots away from happening.
The other thing is, the one team that *has* beaten the Warriors, Lebron's Cavs, was led not by some bruising center but by Lebron, a small forward in Karl Malone's body, along with an elite shoot-first PG in Kyrie Irving, and a 3-point-shooting, rebounding, role-playing PF in Kevin Love.
However, Houston sure could have used a little inside offense when they were going 0 for a kazillion in game 7. The three point shot is here to stay, but as defenses adjust, the middle will open up again. Yes, its an evolution, but teams adjust. Skill, size, and athleticism all still matter--a lot.Cap wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 10:41 amIt's also about evolution in skills. There are a lot more three-point threats in the league today, especially among big men, than there used to be. Putting two or even all three front court players behind the arc is a lot more practical than it used to be.Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 10:24 amI don't think the shift away from big men is a "fad" or a "trend." I think it's an evolution, unlikely to revert.
The current NBA is much more data-driven than in the past. It's less about trends and preferences of players or GMs. It's more about stat nerds realizing that corner 3s and layups and fast ball movement actually demonstrably delivers higher expected value than post ups, big man inside-out play, iso ball, and other such styles. We didn't play that way before because coaches and GMs didn't have this data and had to go with their gut more often. And their guts were not correct.
Yeah, that was weird for Mori to say and contradicts his other Warrior love fest post in the playoffs thread.Indy wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 11:28 amI don't see the Rockets as playing anything like the warriors. I guess you could say they both shoot a lot of 3s, but that is about it.Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 10:24 amI don't think the shift away from big men is a "fad" or a "trend." I think it's an evolution, unlikely to revert.
The current NBA is much more data-driven than in the past. It's less about trends and preferences of players or GMs. It's more about stat nerds realizing that corner 3s and layups and fast ball movement actually demonstrably delivers higher expected value than post ups, big man inside-out play, iso ball, and other such styles. We didn't play that way before because coaches and GMs didn't have this data and had to go with their gut more often. And their guts were not correct.
I don't care at all about beating the Warriors. As others have said, they won't be the same team any more by the time we are (hopefully) trying to contend. Also, a Houston team that plays a very similar style to the Warriors just came one bad quarter away from beating Golden State and advancing to the Finals. They have only one big man of any import on the roster, Capela, and he's a role player. I don't know how one could look at this WCF and conclude that "nobody is ever going to out-Warriors the Warriors." It just came a few shots away from happening.
The other thing is, the one team that *has* beaten the Warriors, Lebron's Cavs, was led not by some bruising center but by Lebron, a small forward in Karl Malone's body, along with an elite shoot-first PG in Kyrie Irving, and a 3-point-shooting, rebounding, role-playing PF in Kevin Love.
Houston did try to take it to the hoop but Houston could have also used more than one playmaker, similar to the Warriors multiple options. With Doncic, Booker, and Jackson (all three projected as very good playmakers) who do you guard. All are capable of taking it to the hoop or shooting from distance. This is in lieu of having a big waiting to get a pass with no one to initiate the offense. Or as INFO so aptly has described, no engine.JCSunsfan wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 11:29 amHowever, Houston sure could have used a little inside offense when they were going 0 for a kazillion in game 7. The three point shot is here to stay, but as defenses adjust, the middle will open up again. Yes, its an evolution, but teams adjust. Skill, size, and athleticism all still matter--a lot.Cap wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 10:41 amIt's also about evolution in skills. There are a lot more three-point threats in the league today, especially among big men, than there used to be. Putting two or even all three front court players behind the arc is a lot more practical than it used to be.Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 10:24 amI don't think the shift away from big men is a "fad" or a "trend." I think it's an evolution, unlikely to revert.
The current NBA is much more data-driven than in the past. It's less about trends and preferences of players or GMs. It's more about stat nerds realizing that corner 3s and layups and fast ball movement actually demonstrably delivers higher expected value than post ups, big man inside-out play, iso ball, and other such styles. We didn't play that way before because coaches and GMs didn't have this data and had to go with their gut more often. And their guts were not correct.
I found this series super interesting. The Warriors had an amazing comeback to win Game 7, and they feel like a dynasty. But at the same time, Houston probably would have beaten them with Chris Paul healthy. So the margin is razor thin. If you're Houston, I'd say you just run back the same team and hope everybody stays healthy for the rematch, right?Superbone wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 11:29 amYeah, that was weird for Mori to say and contradicts his other Warrior love fest post in the playoffs thread.Indy wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 11:28 amI don't see the Rockets as playing anything like the warriors. I guess you could say they both shoot a lot of 3s, but that is about it.Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 10:24 amI don't think the shift away from big men is a "fad" or a "trend." I think it's an evolution, unlikely to revert. ...