Re: Suns Off-Season Thread
Posted: Tue May 24, 2022 10:19 pm
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Suns 2022 Off-Season Thread
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Re: Suns Off-Season Thread
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 7:14 am
That settles it: we should trade for KAT, then -not- extend him, just like we did to Ayton. The Sarver special!
Re: Suns Off-Season Thread
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 7:39 am
I am aware of the context being less than Pippen’s moment I watched that game. Allow me to rephrase- Ayton’s immature and unprofessional sulking behavior amidst a very disappointing moment wherein he was getting his ass handed to him and blaming his coach and teammates.JeremyG wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 10:14 pmHe never refused to sub into a playoff game. You're thinking of world champion Hall of Famer Scottie Pippen (#2 player on 6 title teams).Drewsprocket wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 4:08 pmPeople defending Ayton here like he didn’t come out saying he stays up late playing video games on game nights or never refused to sub into a playoff game all in the space of weeks before his RFA.
Re: Suns Off-Season Thread
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 8:44 am
Do you really believe this?specialsauce wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 10:15 pmBingoJeremyG wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 10:54 amSee that's the problem with the Suns' front office. They're literally insane.ShelC wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 10:26 amTWEET REMOVED
The recent Williams dynamic may simply echo consistent word—dating back to the trade deadline—from league sources with knowledge of the situation that Ayton is not particularly a favorite of Phoenix's head coach. Williams has purportedly griped about Ayton's waning focus, which some people contacted by B/R said has often been reflected by the ebbs of his playing time.
There's a stronger sense among league figures that Phoenix brass simply does not view Ayton, or any center, as a player worth greater than $30 million annually.
If the Suns let Ayton walk, league officials expect Phoenix to try and engineer a sign-and-trade for some frontcourt help. That would require tricky cap calculations and possibly a third team.
Perhaps Portland, where free-agent center Jusuf Nurkic is expected to command far less than Ayton on the open market, could be a trade partner. Detroit's longstanding willingness to discuss Jerami Grant could provide a window for Phoenix to nab a versatile frontcourt defender in return.So much for everyone's dreams of landing KAT.
Also, do they not understand there's going to be a jump in the salary cap? Over $30M will be nothing.
And this argument (likely coming from the team) is just so shortsighted it's almost hilarious:
Yeah, maybe Paul could...for what? Another 0.5 years? Lol.If the Suns could sign Biyombo midseason to just a veteran minimum deal and Chris Paul could steer him into a serviceable rotation player, could Paul not have the same success with a big man far less costly than Ayton's next deal?
Our 2 biggest problems haunting us for our future (and that destroyed us this postseason):
1. Monty's love for Chris.
2. Monty's hate for Deandre.
Re: Suns Off-Season Thread
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 9:15 am
People going to split with Monty for hanging onto hope for Ayton having a long successful career as a dominant center for the Suns. I am not mad at yall. I still root for him in a suns jersey. I just don’t know many max players with this many red flags turning into superstars. I share Split’s opinion on getting a big name.
Lol. I did see a KD rumor hasn’t spoken to Nets since his sweep on twitter. I just hope whatever happens, tampering bullshit isn’t gonna be called out. You know homeslice Cubes is gonna be on it.
Lol. I did see a KD rumor hasn’t spoken to Nets since his sweep on twitter. I just hope whatever happens, tampering bullshit isn’t gonna be called out. You know homeslice Cubes is gonna be on it.
Re: Suns Off-Season Thread
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 9:54 am
Close enough!!Wally_West wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 8:08 pmMy dream would be KD, tired of Kyrie’s bullshit, forces his way to Phoenix. S&T Ayton and some expiring contracts for him. I don’t think Ayton would have a problem playing in New York.
Re: Suns Off-Season Thread
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 10:31 am
Interesting take on Booker and Paul.
Re: Suns Off-Season Thread
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 10:39 am
Fire up your trade machines fellas!Wally_West wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 9:54 am
Close enough!!Wally_West wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 8:08 pmMy dream would be KD, tired of Kyrie’s bullshit, forces his way to Phoenix. S&T Ayton and some expiring contracts for him. I don’t think Ayton would have a problem playing in New York.
Re: Suns Off-Season Thread
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 10:51 am
I've been the biggest proponent of keeping Ayton, but if KD were to be available, I'd trade anything but Booker to get him here.
Re: Suns Off-Season Thread
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 10:57 am
Would have to be a 3 team trade since Brooklyn can’t acquire a player via sign and trade…though that changes if Kyrie opts out.
If he opts out I believe Ayton, Saric, Payne, and Craig works salary wise. Of course that’s not nearly enough asset wise. The ideal would be if Brooklyn would take that plus 4 1sts, but I’m sure they’d insist on Bridges.
I think Ayton/Bridges by themselves works too. Another option would be switching Craig for Cam Johnson.
Would they take Ayton, Cam, Saric, Payne and 2 1sts?
If KD is really available I throw whatever it takes to get him here with Paul and Booker. He’s the one guy I’d admit we need to move Bridges for if they require it.
If he opts out I believe Ayton, Saric, Payne, and Craig works salary wise. Of course that’s not nearly enough asset wise. The ideal would be if Brooklyn would take that plus 4 1sts, but I’m sure they’d insist on Bridges.
I think Ayton/Bridges by themselves works too. Another option would be switching Craig for Cam Johnson.
Would they take Ayton, Cam, Saric, Payne and 2 1sts?
If KD is really available I throw whatever it takes to get him here with Paul and Booker. He’s the one guy I’d admit we need to move Bridges for if they require it.
Re: Suns Off-Season Thread
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 11:25 am
He's always been my target in an Ayton deal, it lines up too well.
Re: Suns Off-Season Thread
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 11:33 am
I think it's fantasy, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
Re: Suns Off-Season Thread
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 11:38 am
If Durant really wants out, Nets don't have much leverage. Why don't we cash in every chip not named Booker, Paul, or Ayton? And if we are smart, we can try to hang on to either Bridges or Cam Johnson.
Key is not to do a bad deal, just run with the same team with tweaks again if needed. But I suspect that either LeBron or Durant will force their ways out, giving the Suns an opportunity for a heist.
Key is not to do a bad deal, just run with the same team with tweaks again if needed. But I suspect that either LeBron or Durant will force their ways out, giving the Suns an opportunity for a heist.
Re: Suns Off-Season Thread
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 11:51 am
New article by Dave King on why the Ayton for Durant trade does not work under the cap rules: https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2022 ... oenix-suns
Re: Suns Off-Season Thread
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 12:02 pm
Obviously we're exaggerating a little bit. When I say "hate" I mean: "dislike for him as a player/bias against him/putting him under a harsher microscope than his teammates/not wanting to feature him in the offense."Indy wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 8:44 amDo you really believe this?specialsauce wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 10:15 pmBingoJeremyG wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 10:54 amSee that's the problem with the Suns' front office. They're literally insane.ShelC wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 10:26 amTWEET REMOVED
The recent Williams dynamic may simply echo consistent word—dating back to the trade deadline—from league sources with knowledge of the situation that Ayton is not particularly a favorite of Phoenix's head coach. Williams has purportedly griped about Ayton's waning focus, which some people contacted by B/R said has often been reflected by the ebbs of his playing time.
There's a stronger sense among league figures that Phoenix brass simply does not view Ayton, or any center, as a player worth greater than $30 million annually.
If the Suns let Ayton walk, league officials expect Phoenix to try and engineer a sign-and-trade for some frontcourt help. That would require tricky cap calculations and possibly a third team.
Perhaps Portland, where free-agent center Jusuf Nurkic is expected to command far less than Ayton on the open market, could be a trade partner. Detroit's longstanding willingness to discuss Jerami Grant could provide a window for Phoenix to nab a versatile frontcourt defender in return.
Also, do they not understand there's going to be a jump in the salary cap? Over $30M will be nothing.
And this argument (likely coming from the team) is just so shortsighted it's almost hilarious:
Yeah, maybe Paul could...for what? Another 0.5 years? Lol.If the Suns could sign Biyombo midseason to just a veteran minimum deal and Chris Paul could steer him into a serviceable rotation player, could Paul not have the same success with a big man far less costly than Ayton's next deal?
Our 2 biggest problems haunting us for our future (and that destroyed us this postseason):
1. Monty's love for Chris.
2. Monty's hate for Deandre.
Re: Suns Off-Season Thread
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 12:07 pm
They do have him signed for the next 4 yearsvirtual9mm wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 11:38 amIf Durant really wants out, Nets don't have much leverage. Why don't we cash in every chip not named Booker, Paul, or Ayton? And if we are smart, we can try to hang on to either Bridges or Cam Johnson.
Key is not to do a bad deal, just run with the same team with tweaks again if needed. But I suspect that either LeBron or Durant will force their ways out, giving the Suns an opportunity for a heist.
Re: Suns Off-Season Thread
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 12:11 pm
You think Monty has disliked DA and that is why DA doesn't perform up to his ability?JeremyG wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 12:02 pmObviously we're exaggerating a little bit. When I say "hate" I mean: "dislike for him as a player/bias against him/putting him under a harsher microscope than his teammates/not wanting to feature him in the offense."Indy wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 8:44 amDo you really believe this?specialsauce wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 10:15 pmBingoJeremyG wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 10:54 amSee that's the problem with the Suns' front office. They're literally insane.
Also, do they not understand there's going to be a jump in the salary cap? Over $30M will be nothing.
And this argument (likely coming from the team) is just so shortsighted it's almost hilarious:
Yeah, maybe Paul could...for what? Another 0.5 years? Lol.If the Suns could sign Biyombo midseason to just a veteran minimum deal and Chris Paul could steer him into a serviceable rotation player, could Paul not have the same success with a big man far less costly than Ayton's next deal?
Our 2 biggest problems haunting us for our future (and that destroyed us this postseason):
1. Monty's love for Chris.
2. Monty's hate for Deandre.
And have you watched enough of Ayton being the center of an offense? Tell me the last time he was the focus of an offense and that team won.
Re: Suns Off-Season Thread
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 12:14 pm
He did a half-assed job on this. You can absolutely do the trade, you just can't do it Ayton for KD straight up. Other players would have to be included because their salaries don't match up due to BYC. We talked about this quite a bit over the last few days. And the latest Timeline pod did a great job of explaining all of this.JeremyG wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 11:51 amNew article by Dave King on why the Ayton for Durant trade does not work under the cap rules: https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2022 ... oenix-suns
Re: Suns Off-Season Thread
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 12:18 pm
He’s wrong though…he says you can’t just keep adding players to make it work, the math is the math, but it doesn’t look like he did the math.JeremyG wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 11:51 amNew article by Dave King on why the Ayton for Durant trade does not work under the cap rules: https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2022 ... oenix-suns
KD has a 44.1 million dollar salary next year which means they can take up to 55.1 million in salary back.
In order for the trade to work for the suns, they’d need to send out at least 35.5 million.
The BYC stuff makes things tricky, but there is still wiggle room.
Ayton+Mikal for instance would be about 51.4 million in salary(30.5 for Ayton and 20.9 for Mikal), so that works for Brooklyn.
That same deal would count for 36.1 for us(15.2 for Ayton and 20.9 for Mikal) so it works for Phoenix too.
But it does hard cap Brooklyn at the luxury tax apron and if they are already over the luxury tax apron they can’t do it. If Kyrie opts in they are over. If he opts out this trade is legal.
Re: Suns Off-Season Thread
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 12:37 pm
Thanks, that makes sense! Brooklyn probably wouldn't want to hard cap themselves though, like he said.Split T wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 12:18 pmHe’s wrong though…he says you can’t just keep adding players to make it work, the math is the math, but it doesn’t look like he did the math.JeremyG wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 11:51 amNew article by Dave King on why the Ayton for Durant trade does not work under the cap rules: https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2022 ... oenix-suns
KD has a 44.1 million dollar salary next year which means they can take up to 55.1 million in salary back.
In order for the trade to work for the suns, they’d need to send out at least 35.5 million.
The BYC stuff makes things tricky, but there is still wiggle room.
Ayton+Mikal for instance would be about 51.4 million in salary(30.5 for Ayton and 20.9 for Mikal), so that works for Brooklyn.
That same deal would count for 36.1 for us(15.2 for Ayton and 20.9 for Mikal) so it works for Phoenix too.
But it does hard cap Brooklyn at the luxury tax apron and if they are already over the luxury tax apron they can’t do it. If Kyrie opts in they are over. If he opts out this trade is legal.