Phx-Suns.Net

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:38 am

Indy wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:59 am

How many of our starting 5 are above average NBA starters? I count 2.

That is an interesting question, and you may be right about your count of 2. But I would ask that same question of other teams as well, even contenders.

How many above average NBA starters do the Lakers have? 2? Lebron and Davis?

How about the Clippers? Maybe 3?

Nuggets? Sixers? Bucks? I think a lot of teams hover in the 2-3 range depending on how you want to argue it.

It's not so much that you need 5 "above average" starters, more that the other non-stars need to be really good at playing their roles. In that way I think guys like Bridges and Rubio are great for rounding out a starting lineup, because they excellently play the role given to them (3-and-D, or running the offense / passing, respectively).

Having a top 15 SF and PF is one thing. Having two top 10 players in the league is something else. Same with Clips. It isn't binary. C'mon.

In2ition wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:33 am

So you could be so far over the luxury tax that you are paying crazy amount for every dollar, but still be able to essentially have more money/space than someone that is .5 million under the cap?

No, if you are only .5 under the cap, you can just not renounce the mid level exception, which takes you over the cap and lets you use the full mid level.

What would you guys think of going after Fournier in FA?

18 points on 40% 3pt shooting, 6 attempts a game. 60% TS. 3 assists a game. I’m not too sure how he is defensively, i imagine not great, but he could be a nice guard off the bench.

Split T wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:45 am

In2ition wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:33 am

So you could be so far over the luxury tax that you are paying crazy amount for every dollar, but still be able to essentially have more money/space than someone that is .5 million under the cap?

No, if you are only .5 under the cap, you can just not renounce the mid level exception, which takes you over the cap and lets you use the full mid level.

What is the threshold to you being able to do this? $4 or $5 million below?

Split T wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:50 am

What would you guys think of going after Fournier in FA?

I like Fournier, although I don't see why Orlando wouldn't want to bring him back, and I'm not sure how much he will command. It would be significant I think.

In2ition wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:55 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:45 am

In2ition wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:33 am

So you could be so far over the luxury tax that you are paying crazy amount for every dollar, but still be able to essentially have more money/space than someone that is .5 million under the cap?

No, if you are only .5 under the cap, you can just not renounce the mid level exception, which takes you over the cap and lets you use the full mid level.

What is the threshold to you being able to do this? $4 or $5 million below?

I’m pretty sure if you have less cap space then the full MLE, you can just operate over the cap and have the full MLE. Of course that means you don’t get the room exception. So if you’ve got 8 million in space, it might be better to use the cap space and the room exception.

In2ition wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:57 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:50 am

What would you guys think of going after Fournier in FA?

I like Fournier, although I don't see why Orlando wouldn't want to bring him back, and I'm not sure how much he will command. It would be significant I think.

He’s unrestricted, so not really up to Orlando. He’s got a player option at 17 million so if he’s not getting a long term deal close to that, he probably picks up his option. So that seems to price him out of our range.

Split T wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:01 am

In2ition wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:55 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:45 am

In2ition wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:33 am

So you could be so far over the luxury tax that you are paying crazy amount for every dollar, but still be able to essentially have more money/space than someone that is .5 million under the cap?

No, if you are only .5 under the cap, you can just not renounce the mid level exception, which takes you over the cap and lets you use the full mid level.

What is the threshold to you being able to do this? $4 or $5 million below?

I’m pretty sure if you have less cap space then the full MLE, you can just operate over the cap and have the full MLE. Of course that means you don’t get the room exception. So if you’ve got 8 million in space, it might be better to use the cap space and the room exception.

I feel much more informed on this subject. Thank you.

In2ition wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:05 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:01 am

In2ition wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:55 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:45 am

In2ition wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:33 am

So you could be so far over the luxury tax that you are paying crazy amount for every dollar, but still be able to essentially have more money/space than someone that is .5 million under the cap?

No, if you are only .5 under the cap, you can just not renounce the mid level exception, which takes you over the cap and lets you use the full mid level.

What is the threshold to you being able to do this? $4 or $5 million below?

I’m pretty sure if you have less cap space then the full MLE, you can just operate over the cap and have the full MLE. Of course that means you don’t get the room exception. So if you’ve got 8 million in space, it might be better to use the cap space and the room exception.

I feel much more informed on this subject. Thank you.

Hopefully I’m not leading you astray, but that’s how I understand it. Anyone please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

Split T wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:02 am

In2ition wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:57 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:50 am

What would you guys think of going after Fournier in FA?

I like Fournier, although I don't see why Orlando wouldn't want to bring him back, and I'm not sure how much he will command. It would be significant I think.

He’s unrestricted, so not really up to Orlando. He’s got a player option at 17 million so if he’s not getting a long term deal close to that, he probably picks up his option. So that seems to price him out of our range.

$17 mil per range is not unreasonable for him.

Can’t help but think of Fournier’s gangrene . Makes me not want him. Google image it

This game isn’t doing Fournier any favors either

Fournier is not the target for us.

Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:28 pm

Fournier is not the target for us.

These are not the droids you're looking for...

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:19 am

Superbone wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:13 am

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:10 am

Superbone wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:07 am

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:24 am

FVV has 30 & 11 on 8-10 3s tonight.

My personal assessment is that y’all fools trippin on some good acid if you think Rubio is better now or for the future next to Booker.

And you're trippin if you think we can just go out and get him.

You’re right why even try? We’re losers. Always have been always will be. Love the spirit

Yeah, let's get LeBron and Durant while we're at it.

So you admit FVV is way better then? You just referenced LBJ and KD as a comparison to chasing for him, which is silly.

I never said FVV isn't better. LBJ is better than Cam J and KD is better than Mikal too.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:43 pm

Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:28 pm

Fournier is not the target for us.

These are not the droids you're looking for...

Hahahah

Not sure if this was posted anywhere

Indy wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:23 am

3rdside wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:14 am

Indy wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:59 am

3rdside wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:05 pm

Moving on ... From Evan Sidery on Twitter:

Suns are projected to have $10.7 million in cap space if they do all of the following:

- Keep cap holds on Saric, Carter
- Renounce Baynes
- Decline options on Kaminsky, Diallo
- Waive Okobo

Phoenix will not be in a position to pursue bigger names unless Saric is not re-signed.

I'm not a cap expert so read this with caution, but from what I can tell Baynes has a $10.4m hold, so if we keep him by signing him for that, or less, and sign our rookie then we'll be over the cap by more or less whatever the rookie contract is?

If so, I say we're set at 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 with the emergence of Johnson at 4 but could do with a talent upgrade at 1 and 4, with the 4 the more pressing issue however a back up 2 may be the most pressing issue of all.

So on the basis of the Ayton's suspension, Baynes's moments and bubble performance I could be convinced to stick with what we've got + a rookie 2 rather than make any marginal or expensive moves.

How many of our starting 5 are above average NBA starters? I count 2.

I mean set for this season .. and you're not going to get 5 above average players on one team.

Maybe my message has been lost so I'll say it again .. "stability and growth" .. so no marginal moves, or expensive moves unless it's a no brainer.

Agreed it isn't likely, but as a whole you want your team to be better than average (only way to even make the playoffs, much less get to round 2). If you only have 1-2 above average players in your starting 5, it makes it really hard to beat most teams on most nights.

No doubt .. but that's where the Suns are at with synergy / team chemistry at the moment; a bit like going 48 - 34 in '13-14, going 8-0 in the bubble suggests we're over achieving again.

That's a good thing, and will carry over into next season if we decide not to make any big changes, but it can only get you so far unless you bring in (or develop..) above average talent.

Which is why I'm a little torn as we're probably a little short of it, even though Bridges and Johnson are developing nicely, but fixing it (guard and PF positions) without costing us too much money or depth doesn't look straight forward.

Which means I'm happy to let it ride with what we've got if that's what we decide to do:

- Bring in a combo guard in the draft to back up Rubio and Booker (I'm likely not touching Rubio for reasons given even though he's not perfect)

and..

- Let Johnson / Oubre / Saric do their thing at the 4.

It's possibly a little undersized (which is why it could likely do with an upgrade) but it's decent, cost effective and provides depth and there doesn't seem to be any clearly better options out there. Gallinari I like, for example, but we'd have to lose Oubre and Baynes (I guess), two pretty talented players providing depth as well, to do that.

ShelC wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:30 pm

Not sure if this was posted anywhere

Yeah, see above