I guess I just don’t see any realistic way of unloading Rubio. Other teams just don’t see him as being worth the 17 mil and don’t want that to eat up cap space. So therefore I’m not sure how we’d be getting FVV.
Unloading Oubre frees up the space
I agree it looks like Oubre is our most valuable asset we can part with, I am not sure that move (in isolation) makes us better. What would be the other moves we can make after we spend all of that on him without trading Rubio?
By move do you mean replacing Oubre with VanVleet? We’d get some sort of asset in the Oubre trade. The one I mentioned would be GS taking him into their trade exception and we move up from 10 to 2. Though I’m not all that excited about moving up. At that point I’d try to trade back with someone targeting Wiseman or Ball. Though we could just draft Ball or Toppin ourselves.
I think we can still have the cap space to bring back Saric/Carter plus add someone for the room exception.
If we trade back from 2, we could add another bench player and still draft someone like Haliburton or Vassell.
You can’t have two players making a combined $32M coming off the bench. That’s silly and is going to cash strap you filling the rest of your roster.
I also have no interest in paying Oubre more than $10-12M per as a sixth man, and I agree a team will throw $20M at him. You cannot afford to see your best trade asset walk away without anything in return. Now is the best time to trade him while you can get something valuable in return to balance out your roster.
The MLE is over 10M. A 6th man on a good team (unless he is on a rookie contract) is going to command more than 10-12M.
No, it’s not. It’s projected to be $9.7M next season and that’s before COVID changes everything. Lou Williams makes $8M/year and he is the prototypical sixth man.
I don’t think Kelly is worth more than Chicken Wing a Williams.
George Hill is the 6th man for the Bucks. Makes $8M.
Toronto only has 4 players making more than $10M.
Lakers have 3.
Rockets have 4.
Winning teams pay their best players handsomely and understand the rest can be done by signing value role players and drafting appropriately to fit their identity.
Mediocre teams get stuck in mediocrity by overpaying role players.
We have Booker getting a max deal.
Rubio is paid too much for what he does.
Oubre is paid too much for the role we want him to play.
I would assume Ayton is headed towards a deal north of $20M and he’s going to get it.
I would love FVV at 20-25.
Bridges is headed towards an extension as well.
Booker
Ayton
FVV
Bridges
To me that would be your core, and you need enough money to fill out your team appropriately beyond that. Locking Kelly in to a long term deal when more important pieces are coming up on extensions is a losing strategy.
Pretty solid post. It’s hard to build a deep rotation if you’re paying your 5th and 6th guys 15+ million
Agreed. Right now we have a total of 3 guys on the roster making over 10M next year. I am not saying we shouldn't trade Kelly if it gets us back something better. I am saying that paying 15M for your 6th man is not crazy if it puts you into the top tier teams.
I guess I just don’t see any realistic way of unloading Rubio. Other teams just don’t see him as being worth the 17 mil and don’t want that to eat up cap space. So therefore I’m not sure how we’d be getting FVV.
Unloading Oubre frees up the space
I agree it looks like Oubre is our most valuable asset we can part with, I am not sure that move (in isolation) makes us better. What would be the other moves we can make after we spend all of that on him without trading Rubio?
By move do you mean replacing Oubre with VanVleet? We’d get some sort of asset in the Oubre trade. The one I mentioned would be GS taking him into their trade exception and we move up from 10 to 2. Though I’m not all that excited about moving up. At that point I’d try to trade back with someone targeting Wiseman or Ball. Though we could just draft Ball or Toppin ourselves.
I think we can still have the cap space to bring back Saric/Carter plus add someone for the room exception.
If we trade back from 2, we could add another bench player and still draft someone like Haliburton or Vassell.
I guess that was my question. I am not sure that returning next year without Kelly and adding our pick and FVV is an upgrade if that means we can't even sign a legit backup 4/5.
That’s understandable. I think FVV is an upgrade in almost everything over Oubre. But Oubre can play some 4 and moving him does leave us a little short there. We could draft Toppin and make him our backup 4.
You can’t have two players making a combined $32M coming off the bench. That’s silly and is going to cash strap you filling the rest of your roster.
I also have no interest in paying Oubre more than $10-12M per as a sixth man, and I agree a team will throw $20M at him. You cannot afford to see your best trade asset walk away without anything in return. Now is the best time to trade him while you can get something valuable in return to balance out your roster.
The MLE is over 10M. A 6th man on a good team (unless he is on a rookie contract) is going to command more than 10-12M.
No, it’s not. It’s projected to be $9.7M next season and that’s before COVID changes everything. Lou Williams makes $8M/year and he is the prototypical sixth man.
I don’t think Kelly is worth more than Chicken Wing a Williams.
George Hill is the 6th man for the Bucks. Makes $8M.
Toronto only has 4 players making more than $10M.
Lakers have 3.
Rockets have 4.
Winning teams pay their best players handsomely and understand the rest can be done by signing value role players and drafting appropriately to fit their identity.
Mediocre teams get stuck in mediocrity by overpaying role players.
We have Booker getting a max deal.
Rubio is paid too much for what he does.
Oubre is paid too much for the role we want him to play.
I would assume Ayton is headed towards a deal north of $20M and he’s going to get it.
I would love FVV at 20-25.
Bridges is headed towards an extension as well.
Booker
Ayton
FVV
Bridges
To me that would be your core, and you need enough money to fill out your team appropriately beyond that. Locking Kelly in to a long term deal when more important pieces are coming up on extensions is a losing strategy.
You say Rubio is paid too much for what he does, but you can't look at FVV's output - statistically about the same as Rubio's - then justify paying him $8m more on the back of three good playoff games against the Nets.
If it's Rubio's shooting you're looking at, compare it to FVV's - it's not a huge upgrade - and per 36 Rubio is dishing out 3.5 assists more than FVV (with similar-ish turnovers) while only scoring 2.5 points less. This is what's helping our team tick.
I'm with you that Rubio and FVV together is a luxury we probably can't afford (although Rubio, FVV, Toppin and no Oubre sounds mighty appealing), I'm not opposed to the idea of losing Rubio for FVV, but I'm not sold it's the right move yet; the $8m saving and bird in the hand rule make me stick with Rubio for now.
You can’t have two players making a combined $32M coming off the bench. That’s silly and is going to cash strap you filling the rest of your roster.
I also have no interest in paying Oubre more than $10-12M per as a sixth man, and I agree a team will throw $20M at him. You cannot afford to see your best trade asset walk away without anything in return. Now is the best time to trade him while you can get something valuable in return to balance out your roster.
The MLE is over 10M. A 6th man on a good team (unless he is on a rookie contract) is going to command more than 10-12M.
No, it’s not. It’s projected to be $9.7M next season and that’s before COVID changes everything. Lou Williams makes $8M/year and he is the prototypical sixth man.
I don’t think Kelly is worth more than Chicken Wing a Williams.
George Hill is the 6th man for the Bucks. Makes $8M.
Toronto only has 4 players making more than $10M.
Lakers have 3.
Rockets have 4.
Winning teams pay their best players handsomely and understand the rest can be done by signing value role players and drafting appropriately to fit their identity.
Mediocre teams get stuck in mediocrity by overpaying role players.
We have Booker getting a max deal.
Rubio is paid too much for what he does.
Oubre is paid too much for the role we want him to play.
I would assume Ayton is headed towards a deal north of $20M and he’s going to get it.
I would love FVV at 20-25.
Bridges is headed towards an extension as well.
Booker
Ayton
FVV
Bridges
To me that would be your core, and you need enough money to fill out your team appropriately beyond that. Locking Kelly in to a long term deal when more important pieces are coming up on extensions is a losing strategy.
You say Rubio is paid too much for what he does, but you can't look at FVV's output - statistically about the same as Rubio's - then justify paying him $8m more on the back of three good playoff games against the Nets.
If it's Rubio's shooting you're looking at, compare it to FVV's - it's not a huge upgrade - and per 36 Rubio is dishing out 3.5 assists more than FVV (with similar-ish turnovers) while only scoring 2.5 points less. This is what's helping our team tick.
I'm with you that Rubio and FVV together is a luxury we probably can't afford (although Rubio, FVV, Toppin and no Oubre sounds mighty appealing), I'm not opposed to the idea of losing Rubio for FVV, but I'm not sold it's the right move yet; the $8m saving and bird in the hand rule make me stick with Rubio for now.
What we as fans need is for Sarver to sell the team to a deep pocketed owner that's willing to pay, because this isn't a hard cap, even though we keep thinking it is.
"There are 3 rules I live by: never get less than 12 hours sleep, never play cards with a guy with the same first name as a city & never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Everything else is cream cheese."
You say Rubio is paid too much for what he does, but you can't look at FVV's output - statistically about the same as Rubio's - then justify paying him $8m more on the back of three good playoff games against the Nets.
If it's Rubio's shooting you're looking at, compare it to FVV's - it's not a huge upgrade - and per 36 Rubio is dishing out 3.5 assists more than FVV (with similar-ish turnovers) while only scoring 2.5 points less. This is what's helping our team tick.
I'm with you that Rubio and FVV together is a luxury we probably can't afford (although Rubio, FVV, Toppin and no Oubre sounds mighty appealing), I'm not opposed to the idea of losing Rubio for FVV, but I'm not sold it's the right move yet; the $8m saving and bird in the hand rule make me stick with Rubio for now.
FVV shoots nearly 40% from 3 for his career, and is a much better net player (+7 on offense vs defense, whereas Rubio is a net zero for his career). His championship experience is also important. In his 4 seasons in the league, he has 4 times as many playoff games as Rubio in his 9 years.
I'm not discounting it outright, I'm just saying that the weighting applied to 'playoff experience' in a decision on Rubio or FVV is so minor it's unlikely to have a bearing on the outcome.
I guess I just don’t see any realistic way of unloading Rubio. Other teams just don’t see him as being worth the 17 mil and don’t want that to eat up cap space. So therefore I’m not sure how we’d be getting FVV.
Unloading Oubre frees up the space
I agree it looks like Oubre is our most valuable asset we can part with, I am not sure that move (in isolation) makes us better. What would be the other moves we can make after we spend all of that on him without trading Rubio?
By move do you mean replacing Oubre with VanVleet? We’d get some sort of asset in the Oubre trade. The one I mentioned would be GS taking him into their trade exception and we move up from 10 to 2. Though I’m not all that excited about moving up. At that point I’d try to trade back with someone targeting Wiseman or Ball. Though we could just draft Ball or Toppin ourselves.
I think we can still have the cap space to bring back Saric/Carter plus add someone for the room exception.
If we trade back from 2, we could add another bench player and still draft someone like Haliburton or Vassell.
I think if we unload Oubre and Rubio, it would give us room to sign FVV and also get a backup 4 and swing at a reasonable deal. I could be wrong. That’s the direction I would go.
I’d look to deal Oubre for a pick + value G/F and sign whatever hole is left in FA and draft
I’m actually quite surprised how many people aren’t on board with FVV. It just seems like an obvious move if possible. I like Rubio, but VanVleet could actually be the pg of a title team. And I see no issue with Rubio off the bench.
I'm fully on board with FVV. Just don't think we can get him.
