I’m actually quite surprised how many people aren’t on board with FVV. It just seems like an obvious move if possible. I like Rubio, but VanVleet could actually be the pg of a title team. And I see no issue with Rubio off the bench.
I'm fully on board with FVV. Just don't think we can get him.
That’s fair, I don’t think we have much of a chance either. I’d still lean to bringing back the bubble 8(Booker, Ayton, Bridges, Johnson, Rubio, Payne, Cárter, Saric) plus Oubre. Draft either Haliburton, Vassell, Hayes, or Nesmith and use the MLE or equivalent cap space on a bench big.
Rubio/Booker/Bridges/Johnson/Ayton with
Payne/Vassell/Oubre/FA/Saric off the bench. Carter can be the 11th man. Try to dump Jerome if you can. Add a 2nd and draft Tyrell Terry, Desmond Bane, Paul Reed, or Zeke Nanji. Couple vet min contracts and Jalen Lecque to round out the 15.
Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:59 pm
by Shabazz
I think there will be good players available at the minimum this summer.
VanVleet played 11 games fewer than Rubio, but converted 146 3's at 39% clip. Rubio made 78 3's at a 36% clip. That is huge.
VanVleet is also the superior defender.
I'm sorry, but VanVleet's 6.6 assist per game is just fine for a starting point guard.
Only on Planet Orange would this not be a significant upgrade.
Bingo
TS or EFG % is a better stat to look at?
If I had to put my balls on the line I think I'd do the trade as it feels like the kind of risk a team needs to take to progress and FVV is flashing serious upside, but I am not losing much sleep if it doesn't happen. And if I had to put money on it I'm almost certain it won't happen anyway.
Rubio, FVV and Toppin solves all the problems though and this is my pipedream.
Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets
Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:55 am
by 3rdside
*wrt In2ition for coming up with the FVV / Toppin idea in the first place
Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets
Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:53 am
by Flagrant Fowl
If someone doesn't think FVV is a better player than Rubio at this point in their careers, I have to question how much of the league they actually watch.
I guess I just don’t see any realistic way of unloading Rubio. Other teams just don’t see him as being worth the 17 mil and don’t want that to eat up cap space. So therefore I’m not sure how we’d be getting FVV.
Unloading Oubre frees up the space
I agree it looks like Oubre is our most valuable asset we can part with, I am not sure that move (in isolation) makes us better. What would be the other moves we can make after we spend all of that on him without trading Rubio?
By move do you mean replacing Oubre with VanVleet? We’d get some sort of asset in the Oubre trade. The one I mentioned would be GS taking him into their trade exception and we move up from 10 to 2. Though I’m not all that excited about moving up. At that point I’d try to trade back with someone targeting Wiseman or Ball. Though we could just draft Ball or Toppin ourselves.
I think we can still have the cap space to bring back Saric/Carter plus add someone for the room exception.
If we trade back from 2, we could add another bench player and still draft someone like Haliburton or Vassell.
Would we? I guess I'm feeling like we'd end up having to TJ Warren Oubre to get FVV. I'm probably not going to be convinced that we would absolutely get an asset for Oubre. GM's know what Jones track record is on trades so I mean...that's why I am unsure about there being a realistic way to unload Rubio and still get better. Another thing to maybe consider is the PR damage of unloading Rubio 1 year after signing him. Suns already have a reputation of having a TERRIBLE owner and a rep of not being all that loyal to players.
I guess I just don’t see any realistic way of unloading Rubio. Other teams just don’t see him as being worth the 17 mil and don’t want that to eat up cap space. So therefore I’m not sure how we’d be getting FVV.
Unloading Oubre frees up the space
I agree it looks like Oubre is our most valuable asset we can part with, I am not sure that move (in isolation) makes us better. What would be the other moves we can make after we spend all of that on him without trading Rubio?
By move do you mean replacing Oubre with VanVleet? We’d get some sort of asset in the Oubre trade. The one I mentioned would be GS taking him into their trade exception and we move up from 10 to 2. Though I’m not all that excited about moving up. At that point I’d try to trade back with someone targeting Wiseman or Ball. Though we could just draft Ball or Toppin ourselves.
I think we can still have the cap space to bring back Saric/Carter plus add someone for the room exception.
If we trade back from 2, we could add another bench player and still draft someone like Haliburton or Vassell.
Would we? I guess I'm feeling like we'd end up having to TJ Warren Oubre to get FVV. I'm probably not going to be convinced that we would absolutely get an asset for Oubre. GM's know what Jones track record is on trades so I mean...that's why I am unsure about there being a realistic way to unload Rubio and still get better. Another thing to maybe consider is the PR damage of unloading Rubio 1 year after signing him. Suns already have a reputation of having a TERRIBLE owner and a rep of not being all that loyal to players.
Nobody blames a team for upgrading their talent. It is when you are making deals to save money or to "go in a different direction" that isn't necessarily better.
If someone doesn't think FVV is a better player than Rubio at this point in their careers, I have to question how much of the league they actually watch.
FVV is younger and better than Rubio. The problem is, he's not a huge upgrade. Rubio also had great on court / off court numbers for us. Partly because our back ups were terrible, partly because he was, in fact, a good fit here alongside Booker and Ayton.
I'd be much more interested in moving Oubre to clear space for Christian Wood. That makes a lot more sense getting a true PF who would be a massive upgrade at the position.
VanVleet played 11 games fewer than Rubio, but converted 146 3's at 39% clip. Rubio made 78 3's at a 36% clip. That is huge.
VanVleet is also the superior defender.
I'm sorry, but VanVleet's 6.6 assist per game is just fine for a starting point guard.
Only on Planet Orange would this not be a significant upgrade.
Bingo
TS or EFG % is a better stat to look at?
If I had to put my balls on the line I think I'd do the trade as it feels like the kind of risk a team needs to take to progress and FVV is flashing serious upside, but I am not losing much sleep if it doesn't happen. And if I had to put money on it I'm almost certain it won't happen anyway.
Rubio, FVV and Toppin solves all the problems though and this is my pipedream.
Thinking back on this one, three starting PG's isn't ideal .. Hayes or Haliburton - PG's that can be mentored by Rubio and can play off the ball - and a move for a PF now or next off-season more realistic.
Bertans is the PF being talked about this morning but I'm not sure Washington will in a rush to see him come to us .. $15m a year or so sounds pretty appealing if we could pull it off.
VanVleet played 11 games fewer than Rubio, but converted 146 3's at 39% clip. Rubio made 78 3's at a 36% clip. That is huge.
VanVleet is also the superior defender.
I'm sorry, but VanVleet's 6.6 assist per game is just fine for a starting point guard.
Only on Planet Orange would this not be a significant upgrade.
Bingo
TS or EFG % is a better stat to look at?
If I had to put my balls on the line I think I'd do the trade as it feels like the kind of risk a team needs to take to progress and FVV is flashing serious upside, but I am not losing much sleep if it doesn't happen. And if I had to put money on it I'm almost certain it won't happen anyway.
Rubio, FVV and Toppin solves all the problems though and this is my pipedream.
Thinking back on this one, three starting PG's isn't ideal .. Hayes or Haliburton - PG's that can be mentored by Rubio and can play off the ball - and a move for a PF now or next off-season more realistic.
Bertans is the PF being talked about this morning but I'm not sure Washington will in a rush to see him come to us .. $15m a year or so sounds pretty appealing if we could pull it off.
Honestly, if Bertans is the target. I would try to make a trade with Philly for Ben Simmons(not sure of the details to do this at the moment). A team with Booker, Bridges, Johnson, Payne, Carter, Bertans, Ayton, and perhaps Vassell is a near perfect match for someone like Simmons, where his shooting issues can be hidden and Bertans deficiencies on defense next to Ayton can hidden by Simmons.
Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets
Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:57 pm
by ShelC
Brand seemed pretty adamant he wasn't interested in trading Embiid or Simmons.
Brand seemed pretty adamant he wasn't interested in trading Embiid or Simmons.
Yeah, you're probably right. It's more wishful thinking.
Brand has really screwed up that team. He could have had Covington, Shamet, Bridges, Redick, and Saric right now. I'm probably missing someone or multiple people.
Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets
Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:44 pm
by ShelC
The Horford deal really made no sense to me, and neither did the Harris deal for that matter but you could kind of say Harris is a young "positionless" type that can be part of the core. It seemed like they tried to go in with "stars" but screwed up with Butler and Horford was kind of a knee jerk reaction.
Brand seemed pretty adamant he wasn't interested in trading Embiid or Simmons.
They’ll let a new coach try and make it work. Next summer will be when they trade one of them
trade deadline
Possibly, though I feel like the off season is when we usually see the big names moved
Considering they ran the GM out of town due to following The Process, just got swept out of the playoffs, and fired their coach, I get the feeling that management doesn't have the patience to go through an entire season without making a big change. I guess if the new coach comes in and they are killing it and a top 2-3 seed in the east by the deadline, not much would happen. But if they are struggling, then I can easily see it happen.
Re: NBA FA 2020 & Suns FA targets
Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:58 pm
by Shabazz
I think a Horford-Harrison Barnes trade makes some sense for both teams. Philly may need to sweeten the package.