Pence/Kaine Veep debate

[Mori Chu]

Who watched the Vice Presidential debate? Thoughts?

Myself, I thought Kaine didn't handle the first half very well. He was constantly interrupting Pence and the moderator to launch attacks, but it came off awkwardly. I think maybe he was coached to be aggressive or something like that, trying not to seem bland and boring. Overall I thought Pence was calm and self-assured and did more to advance his running mate than Kaine did.

The best thing I can say for Kaine is that Pence didn't always have good answers or defenses to some of the many attacks that Kaine launched. Pence would often either not really answer, or would chalk it up to a "campaign of insults" by Hillary, or would say that it was because Trump is not a "polished politician." Still, I think Pence seeming like a rational normal Republican on the stage did more to help Trump than Kaine's attacks did to help Hillary.

From what I have read, veep debates have almost no impact on people's votes, though, so maybe the whole thing is pointless.

[Indy]

I tuned in about 30 minutes late. It was not very helpful. It was very telling that Pence wouldn't defend 90% of what Trump said (in policy terms or in general terms), but he is very polished. Both are career politicians, so it was what everyone expected. No big moments from what I saw. Kaine came across as an attack dog (which I get, because that is the job of the VP candidate during elections), and that doesn't help his ticket. I read an interesting comment that said if the ticket were flipped on the GOP side, this election would likely be a done deal already.

[Cap]

[ShelC]

I watched about 2/3 of it and Kaine was really annoying. It might have been his strategy to interrupt and talk over Pence but I think the general feeling (from the news networks and social media) was that he was in fact very annoying and came off poorly. In general, Kaine just strikes me as a weirdo. There's something about him that's off.

I thought Pence came off a lot better and I liked him a lot more, though I don't agree with him on major social issues. I think could help Trump a lot more than Kaine can help Hillary. If undecideds and independents think Pence has some substance and weight and can maybe guide Trump a bit or take over in some unprecedented cicumstance, that may help nudge them in that direction. You just know Kaine is Hillary's choice for VP precisely because he'll know his place and will keep his mouth shut.

[Indy]

I honestly don't think there are any undecideds left. Or, I should say, not enough to make a difference. I say that because most fence-sitters are choosing between Donald and anyone else (either Hillary, or a 3rd party). There isn't any way a 3rd party will win this year (unfortunately), so you would have to be in that very slim bucket of switching from Hillary to Donald, and be in a swing state (which are dwindling every day). So even if Hillary came out and said "F*ck you all, b!tches" at the next debate opening statement, there wouldn't be enough people to switch over to Donald in North Carolina AND Ohio AND Florida AND Iowa AND Colorado to move those over to T/P. Those are the latest states that are currently blue that Donald would need to add to his typical GOP states in order to get enough EVs. Right now it looks like Hillary will win with some where between 300 and 350 EVs. And honestly, Trump could come out and say yeah, I hate all folks in this country that aren't at least multi-millionaires and white, and his needle wouldn't move much either. It is so damn crazy.

[carey]

I think Kaine did exactly what was asked of him & it wasn't to "win" the debate. It was to make Pence try to defend Trumps positions and statements. Pence outright lied several times up there or flat out couldn't defend most of Trump's claims. There's a great video of it this morning with Kaine saying "Trump has said X" with Pence going "that's not true" immediately cutting to Trump saying X. It's very effective.

[Indy]

I think Kaine did exactly what was asked of him & it wasn't to "win" the debate. It was to make Pence try to defend Trumps positions and statements. Pence outright lied several times up there or flat out couldn't defend most of Trump's claims. There's a great video of it this morning with Kaine saying "Trump has said X" with Pence going "that's not true" immediately cutting to Trump saying X. It's very effective.

I think that video is the exact reason Kaine was asked to behave that way. Trump makes it so easy. In the end, that is all you will remember from that debate.

[Cap]

I think Kaine did exactly what was asked of him & it wasn't to "win" the debate. It was to make Pence try to defend Trumps positions and statements. Pence outright lied several times up there or flat out couldn't defend most of Trump's claims. There's a great video of it this morning with Kaine saying "Trump has said X" with Pence going "that's not true" immediately cutting to Trump saying X. It's very effective.

I just posted a link to it. I careyed carey.

Didn't do it very well, though, because I couldn't get the tweet tag to work.

[carey]

I think Kaine did exactly what was asked of him & it wasn't to "win" the debate. It was to make Pence try to defend Trumps positions and statements. Pence outright lied several times up there or flat out couldn't defend most of Trump's claims. There's a great video of it this morning with Kaine saying "Trump has said X" with Pence going "that's not true" immediately cutting to Trump saying X. It's very effective.

I just posted a link to it. I careyed carey.

Didn't do it very well, though, because I couldn't get the tweet tag to work.

Got me! I don't take the time to click the tweet links when I'm on the go in Tapatalk. I wish they'd find a way to embed tweets.

[Nodack]

I didnt watch the debate. I sort of maybe would have if I remembered. I dont really know either guy and barely care. The media from what i gather seems to think Pence won. It's like the Olympics and these guys we're playing the Bronze medal game.

[Mori Chu]

You just know Kaine is Hillary's choice for VP precisely because he'll know his place and will keep his mouth shut.

I think both veep choices were largely picked because they come from swing states (Kaine from Virginia, and Pence from Indiana). And both have helped their running mates by a few points in their respective home states. In Pence's case I think he also helps Trump balance the ticket by seeming more calm and more legitimately Republican / Christian Conservative than Trump. I don't think Kaine adds much besides being from Virginia and being seen as a "nice" guy.

[Mori Chu]

I read an interesting comment that said if the ticket were flipped on the GOP side, this election would likely be a done deal already.

Do you mean that Pence would win as President over Clinton? I am not sure I agree with that. Hillary isn't the most popular candidate, but the Democratic party is surging in 2016. The Republican party is having trouble reaching demographics other than older white male voters, and it's starting to show. I think the Dems are due for a reign at the top for many years going forward unless the GOP heavily revamps their party platform to be more inclusive and more reflective of 2016 social/economic realities.

[ShelC]

The GOP made a halfhearted attempt to crack the "old, white male" description of the party by promoting the likes of Cruz, Rubio and Carson. But they were just propped up, as I'm sure the party thought Bush would be the eventual nominee who could still get the hispanic vote because of his wife and history in FL and take one of those as his running mate.

I think the Dems are due for a reign at the top for many years going forward unless the GOP heavily revamps their party platform to be more inclusive and more reflective of 2016 social/economic realities.

Agreed.

[Mori Chu]

This is an interesting article written for The Ringer by a Republican never-Trumper about why conservatives shouldn't vote for Trump.

https://theringer.com/six-reasons-conse ... .sqaxsy7kn

[Indy]

This is an interesting article written for The Ringer by a Republican never-Trumper about why conservatives shouldn't vote for Trump.

https://theringer.com/six-reasons-conse ... .sqaxsy7kn

So I didn't read it, but can I assume that conservatives should not vote for trump because he isn't conservative?

[O_Gardino]

This is an interesting article written for The Ringer by a Republican never-Trumper about why conservatives shouldn't vote for Trump.

https://theringer.com/six-reasons-conse ... .sqaxsy7kn

So I didn't read it, but can I assume that conservatives should not vote for trump because he isn't conservative?

yep

He is a lifelong New York liberal whose few policy proposals have had more in common with European nationalist parties than anything Ronald Reagan would support.

But that's not his first point. His first point is that Everything trump tells us is a lie. Then after the liberal thing, he moves on to sociopahty. He doesn't call it that, but...

[Indy]

This is an interesting article written for The Ringer by a Republican never-Trumper about why conservatives shouldn't vote for Trump.

https://theringer.com/six-reasons-conse ... .sqaxsy7kn

So I didn't read it, but can I assume that conservatives should not vote for trump because he isn't conservative?

yep

He is a lifelong New York liberal whose few policy proposals have had more in common with European nationalist parties than anything Ronald Reagan would support.

But that's not his first point. His first point is that Everything trump tells us is a lie. Then after the liberal thing, he moves on to sociopahty. He doesn't call it that, but...

Well there is that.

[O_Gardino]

And, while we are talking about Republicans not voting for Trump, I found this interesting.

A baptist church in my Texas town recently held an event to talk about what principles should guide you if you can't stomach either candidate. A baptist church in Texas.

This is the kind of thing that makes me think the republican party is dead. Actual republicans hate Trump, but can't do anything about him.

[Nodack]

And those Republicans are labeled RINO's by their own.