Suns News: Week 7 2/1-2/7

[carey]

A 2-1 week washed the bad taste of the 1-6 stretch out of Suns fans collective mouths. They need to build on it if they really want to make a playoff push this year. We also have 3 nationally televised games this week. Not sure how to search this but I wager it's been since Steve Nash that we've had 3 games on national TV in one week. Our old friend Grant Hill is calling Monday night's game for NBATv.

Last Week's Games

vs. OKC Loss 102-97
vs. Golden State WIN! 114-93
@ Dallas WIN! 114-93

This Week's Games

Monday, Feb. 1st @ Dallas 8:30 PM EST NBATv
Wednesday, Feb. 3rd @ New Orleans 9:30 PM EST ESPN
Friday, Feb. 5th vs. Detroit 9:00 PM EST
Sunday, Feb. 7th vs. Boston 2:00 PM EST NBATv

Suns Stories

Center of the Sun: Minus Booker, Suns still bounce back with two solid wins in Week 6 - https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2021 ... d-wins-nba

Locked On Suns Monday: Grades for all the Suns’ top players at the quarter mark of the season - https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2021 ... nba-season

Breaking down the bigs: Who you want in three years, Deandre Ayton or Zion Williamson? - https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ ... 347162001/

Phoenix Suns: Devin Booker set to return from hamstring injury Monday night at Dallas - https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ ... 349152001/

[ShelC]

Nice article on the bench guys:

[LazarusLong]

"Breaking down the bigs: Who you want in three years, Deandre Ayton or Zion Williamson? "

Despite his flaws, I'll take Ayton.
Williamson's size concerns me ... pounding up and down the court takes it toll on feet, ankles and knees.

[Split T]

Zion does scare me from a health standpoint, but I’d take the chance. I’d rather hold my breath hoping Zion doesn’t break down than hold my breath hoping Ayton ever learns to play consistently aggressive.

[O_Gardino]

I don't think either are living up to the draft hype. They both have a lot to show still, and plenty of time ahead of them to show it.

Zion does not play defense, does not work for rebounds, isn't a very good shooter (not terrible though), and despite him being such an aggressive monster, his scoring is only a little better than DA. We've talked about DA enough, I think.

Zion = +7 points +gravity and play making on offense.
DA = +5 rebounds, + 0.5 blocks, +FT% +impact defender +health

As much as I would love to slam DA for not being the bulldozer he can be, Zion isn't all that either.

[Mori Chu]

You can make a good case that Zion is being misused and miscoached. Plus he's had to come back from injury. I bet most GMs around the league would take Zion over Ayton in a heartbeat. You can argue that Ayton is better for a team like ours, though, since Zion demands the ball more and sucks up more of the offense, while Ayton can make a big impact primarily through defense, setting screens, rolling, putbacks, alleyoops, etc.

[ShelC]

I feel like Zion is a poor shooting, super athletic slashing SG in a 6-7 280 PF's body.

[AmareIsGod]

I've argued this point last season and continue to feel the same. As others stated, Zion isn't built to withstand a very long career in the NBA at his current build and playing style. As we've seen Blake Griffin diminish athletically at a very dramatic rate, Zion will diminish even more quickly. Add in the fact that he's not a good defender at all and his shooting leaves so much to be desired, I'd take Ayton. What is the upside in an athletic bulldozer highlight reel on offense when you're worried at any moment that you're playing him too many minutes or that he's about to suffer a catastrophic injury? I really don't get the infatuation at all some seem to have with him and would take that risk over the improving inconsistency of Ayton that still gives you a huge upside in rebounding and defense most nights even when he's not a big factor on offense. I want a player that contributes to wins, not dunks.

Looking at win shares, Zion trails Ayton while being the #1 option and Ayton being 3rd or 4th most nights.

[AmareIsGod]

Zion does scare me from a health standpoint, but I’d take the chance. I’d rather hold my breath hoping Zion doesn’t break down than hold my breath hoping Ayton ever learns to play consistently aggressive.

Why? For some highlight dunks while constantly monitoring his minutes and praying he doesn't blow a knee? He's a bit of a turnstile on defense on top of the health concerns. What does the chance you're taking net you other than some butts in the seats when the pandemic ends? He's not a generational offensive talent that is going to take your team to the next level.

[Split T]

Zion does scare me from a health standpoint, but I’d take the chance. I’d rather hold my breath hoping Zion doesn’t break down than hold my breath hoping Ayton ever learns to play consistently aggressive.

Why? For some highlight dunks while constantly monitoring his minutes and praying he doesn't blow a knee? He's a bit of a turnstile on defense on top of the health concerns. What does the chance you're taking net you other than some butts in the seats when the pandemic ends? He's not a generational offensive talent that is going to take your team to the next level.

C’mon...he’s essentially a rookie still. He’s played 42 career games and he’s averaging 24/8 and shooting 58% from the field. Again, he’s 20 years old, how can you say he’s not a generational offensive talent at this point? He very well could be on that path. His combination of quickness, power, explosion, and aggressiveness make him almost unstoppable in the paint. He hasn’t been good defensively in the nba, but he did flash a lot of defensive potential in college. Ayton also sucked on defense in his rookie year. Yes the health is a concern, but if you knew he’d stay healthy, it’s not even remotely close, Zion a million times out of a million.

[specialsauce]

I've argued this point last season and continue to feel the same. As others stated, Zion isn't built to withstand a very long career in the NBA at his current build and playing style. As we've seen Blake Griffin diminish athletically at a very dramatic rate, Zion will diminish even more quickly. Add in the fact that he's not a good defender at all and his shooting leaves so much to be desired, I'd take Ayton. What is the upside in an athletic bulldozer highlight reel on offense when you're worried at any moment that you're playing him too many minutes or that he's about to suffer a catastrophic injury? I really don't get the infatuation at all some seem to have with him and would take that risk over the improving inconsistency of Ayton that still gives you a huge upside in rebounding and defense most nights even when he's not a big factor on offense. I want a player that contributes to wins, not dunks.

Looking at win shares, Zion trails Ayton while being the #1 option and Ayton being 3rd or 4th most nights.

I am not a Zion fan for many of the reasons you’ve stated.

I would trade Ayton for Zion if New Orleans called. I would then trade Zion for something more because I think he’s much more valued across the league than DA.

[Indy]

Zion does scare me from a health standpoint, but I’d take the chance. I’d rather hold my breath hoping Zion doesn’t break down than hold my breath hoping Ayton ever learns to play consistently aggressive.

Why? For some highlight dunks while constantly monitoring his minutes and praying he doesn't blow a knee? He's a bit of a turnstile on defense on top of the health concerns. What does the chance you're taking net you other than some butts in the seats when the pandemic ends? He's not a generational offensive talent that is going to take your team to the next level.

C’mon...he’s essentially a rookie still. He’s played 42 career games and he’s averaging 24/8 and shooting 58% from the field. Again, he’s 20 years old, how can you say he’s not a generational offensive talent at this point? He very well could be on that path. His combination of quickness, power, explosion, and aggressiveness make him almost unstoppable in the paint. He hasn’t been good defensively in the nba, but he did flash a lot of defensive potential in college. Ayton also sucked on defense in his rookie year. Yes the health is a concern, but if you knew he’d stay healthy, it’s not even remotely close, Zion a million times out of a million.

this. he may end up with a short career, but he is already more of an offensive player than DA has shown in his career.

Hell, compare him to Book. Zion has a better career scoring average than Booker, better FG% than Booker, and gets to the line more.

[AmareIsGod]

Zion does scare me from a health standpoint, but I’d take the chance. I’d rather hold my breath hoping Zion doesn’t break down than hold my breath hoping Ayton ever learns to play consistently aggressive.

Why? For some highlight dunks while constantly monitoring his minutes and praying he doesn't blow a knee? He's a bit of a turnstile on defense on top of the health concerns. What does the chance you're taking net you other than some butts in the seats when the pandemic ends? He's not a generational offensive talent that is going to take your team to the next level.

C’mon...he’s essentially a rookie still. He’s played 42 career games and he’s averaging 24/8 and shooting 58% from the field. Again, he’s 20 years old, how can you say he’s not a generational offensive talent at this point? He very well could be on that path. His combination of quickness, power, explosion, and aggressiveness make him almost unstoppable in the paint. He hasn’t been good defensively in the nba, but he did flash a lot of defensive potential in college. Ayton also sucked on defense in his rookie year. Yes the health is a concern, but if you knew he’d stay healthy, it’s not even remotely close, Zion a million times out of a million.

this. he may end up with a short career, but he is already more of an offensive player than DA has shown in his career.

Hell, compare him to Book. Zion has a better career scoring average than Booker, better FG% than Booker, and gets to the line more.

Those 3 or 4 seasons you may get out of him while holding your breath are that important and valuable to both of you? I have MAJOR concerns with his health and ability to hold up in the NBA playing the way he plays. When the athleticism starts to degrade and fail him, what happens to that quickness, power, explosion and aggressiveness? Do you really see him as player that can have a lot of success without those elements, having to rely on jump shots? I don't get the gamble people are willing to take because of the highlight reel offense he produces. Kristaps Porziņģis scared me a few years ago when looking at his build vs. height and I've been pretty spot on with those concerns. Those same feelings I have about KP are even stronger when I look at the style of play and body composition of Zion.

[Indy]

How many top players stay with a smaller market team for more than 4-5 years anyway?

[AmareIsGod]

How many top players stay with a smaller market team for more than 4-5 years anyway?

I'm just saying. You'd rather gamble 3 or 4 years of athletic and exciting Zion on minutes restrictions vs. 10 or so years of a center that gives you plus defense, plus rebounding, a good jump shot and is working through some frustrations of not being aggressive enough or confused on offense at times? He was playing damn near dominant offensively while Booker was out. Booker returns and he looks like he's adjusting to having our #1 back while still racking up 17 rebounds and playing good defense for stretches.

Zion is a shorter, stocky version of Shawn Kemp during his prime always a breath away from an injury because of that massive frame he carries up and down the court. And Kemp was a far better defender while also better on the glass. I'd trade what Kemp provided before he got overweight vs. 5 or 6 more points per game Zion gets you.

[Indy]

Do you remember 3 weeks ago when we were all wondering if DA would ever get a FTA or dunk the ball again?

[In2ition]

Who could forget? My son was actively looking for trades for DA every day.

[AmareIsGod]

Do you remember 3 weeks ago when we were all wondering if DA would ever get a FTA or dunk the ball again?

I was shouting at the TV repeatedly and made mention a few times about his vagina showing up, or something derogatory and unnecessary along the same lines, on these very boards and the gameday threads. That doesn't change the fact that even if he doesn't become transcendent on offense, he can have a very long career as a defensive anchor and league leader in rebounds. There's value in Ayton even when he is a mess on offense for stretches. Watch the replays of the game winner last night. Set a good screen to free Booker. When Zion loses his athleticism to injury, and it will happen, what else is he going to be able to provide a team?

[Indy]

Do you remember 3 weeks ago when we were all wondering if DA would ever get a FTA or dunk the ball again?

I was shouting at the TV repeatedly and made mention a few times about his vagina showing up, or something derogatory and unnecessary along the same lines, on these very boards and the gameday threads. That doesn't change the fact that even if he doesn't become transcendent on offense, he can have a very long career as a defensive anchor and league leader in rebounds. There's value in Ayton even when he is a mess on offense for stretches. Watch the replays of the game winner last night. Set a good screen to free Booker. When Zion loses his athleticism to injury, and it will happen, what else is he going to be able to provide a team?

How many GMs in the league would rather have Ayton over Zion?

[Mori Chu]

My main criticism of Zion isn't about health concerns, though I acknowledge there is some cause for concern there. It's about his game. I am leery of "volume scorer" players who are deficient in other areas. It seems like Zion is a guy who needs the ball in his hands and then bulls his way to the basket to get you 25-30 points a night in an ideal scenario. What else does he do? Is he a great passer? Rebounder? Defender? Shooter? Some of these guys end up being fool's gold, not good enough to really carry a team to title contention.

I don't think it is fair to just assume he'll get injured a bunch and be out of his prime in 3-4 years. That seems to underrate him. Most GMs around the league would happily have the guy and would expect to see a normal career arc from him. Maybe he'll have to cut some weight as he goes on, but I think he'll be able to have a lengthy and productive career.