Suns News: Week 10 (12/23 - 12/29)

Discussion of the league and of our favorite team.
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Mori Chu
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Suns News: Week 10 (12/23 - 12/29)

Post by Mori Chu »

Last Week's Games
Thurs, Dec 19th vs Pacers 120 - 111 LOSS :-(
Sat, Dec 21st vs Pistons 133 - 125 LOSS :-(

This Week's Games
Mon, Dec 23 @ Nuggets at 8:00pm AZ, 10:00pm EST
Wed, Dec 25 vs Nuggets at 8:30pm AZ, 10:30pm EST (ABC/ESPN)
Fri, Dec 27 vs Mavs at 7:00pm AZ, 9:00pm EST
Sat, Dec 28 @ Warriors at 6:30pm AZ, 8:30pm EST (NBA TV)

Suns Stories
Bright Side: Was it more fun to watch the bad Suns teams than this year's squad?
https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2024 ... -squad-nba

Bright Side: Tracking 40, Week 9: The Suns are not a good basketball team
https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2024 ... ek-9-recap

ESPN: Suns' Booker out 2 games with groin soreness
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/430 ... n-soreness

ArizonaSports: Maddening mistakes add up in Suns loss to Pistons
https://arizonasports.com/story/3568127 ... turnovers/

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Superbone
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Re: Suns News: Week 10 (12/23 - 12/29)

Post by Superbone »

Thanks, Marty. Going to be a brutal week. Have a Merry Christmas all!
Synchronicity and all that jazz, man.

"Cool is getting us blown out!"
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wpmiller42
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Re: Suns News: Week 10 (12/23 - 12/29)

Post by wpmiller42 »

I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir, but I just think that our team is doing so many dumb things in the name of analytics.

We have two of the best mid-range assassins in the game, but we're going to put them in position to shoot a ton of 3s because analytics.

We have two very capable point guards, but we're going to stick them in the corner because analytics says you need your ball handler to be double teamed as soon as they cross half court.

We have a center who can't close out or rotate quick enough, but let's play drop coverage because analytics say do that.

I could go on. But how much of our problems could be solved by just trusting what our eyes can see and let Jones run the point, put KD and Book where they can score off screens and attack in the mid-range, just tell Nurk to play straight man to man defense, Dunn and Oso just need to play more... just seems like we're trying to play the way analytics says you should play the game now instead of putting our players in the best position for them to succeed.

Hope everyone is having a great holiday season.

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Split T
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Re: Suns News: Week 10 (12/23 - 12/29)

Post by Split T »

The offense has actually been ok…I’m not going to complain about that…but it might be because Tyus and Royce are shooting at ridiculous percentages.

I listened to the timeline pod this morning and our on/off is atrocious with Beal. He and Nurk are the big problems according to the numbers.

Funny enough, Beal’s best numbers are when he’s on and Book/KD are out. We are atrocious with Beal/KD and an absolutely abysmal -19 net rating with Beal/Book. Beal doesn’t work with those 2.

I think I’m beyond ready to bench Nurk. Just start Plumlee. Run Oso 25 minutes a game. Try to trade Beal for Jimmy, but if you can’t, bench him for Royce or Dunn. Here’s my rotation:

Tyus/Booker/Royce/KD/Plumlee
Morris/Beal/Allen/Dunn/Oso

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TOO
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Re: Suns News: Week 10 (12/23 - 12/29)

Post by TOO »

wpmiller42 wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2024 11:18 am
I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir, but I just think that our team is doing so many dumb things in the name of analytics.

We have two of the best mid-range assassins in the game, but we're going to put them in position to shoot a ton of 3s because analytics.

We have two very capable point guards, but we're going to stick them in the corner because analytics says you need your ball handler to be double teamed as soon as they cross half court.

We have a center who can't close out or rotate quick enough, but let's play drop coverage because analytics say do that.

I could go on. But how much of our problems could be solved by just trusting what our eyes can see and let Jones run the point, put KD and Book where they can score off screens and attack in the mid-range, just tell Nurk to play straight man to man defense, Dunn and Oso just need to play more... just seems like we're trying to play the way analytics says you should play the game now instead of putting our players in the best position for them to succeed.

Hope everyone is having a great holiday season.
Booker is only shooting 1 more 3pa on average but his overall shooting is down to 43 from almost 50% it's not on just the 3s killing him, Durant is over 40% from 3, so it's not the 3 point shooting that is the problem. It's the turnovers that are the problem, again, it's the lack of offensive rebounds, again. It's the same problem as before, it's the roster construction being too small and too redundant. Also, let's not forget the atrocious defense.
Love, Hurts.

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Superbone
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Re: Suns News: Week 10 (12/23 - 12/29)

Post by Superbone »

TOO wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2024 11:56 am
wpmiller42 wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2024 11:18 am
I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir, but I just think that our team is doing so many dumb things in the name of analytics.

We have two of the best mid-range assassins in the game, but we're going to put them in position to shoot a ton of 3s because analytics.

We have two very capable point guards, but we're going to stick them in the corner because analytics says you need your ball handler to be double teamed as soon as they cross half court.

We have a center who can't close out or rotate quick enough, but let's play drop coverage because analytics say do that.

I could go on. But how much of our problems could be solved by just trusting what our eyes can see and let Jones run the point, put KD and Book where they can score off screens and attack in the mid-range, just tell Nurk to play straight man to man defense, Dunn and Oso just need to play more... just seems like we're trying to play the way analytics says you should play the game now instead of putting our players in the best position for them to succeed.

Hope everyone is having a great holiday season.
Booker is only shooting 1 more 3pa on average but his overall shooting is down to 43 from almost 50% it's not on just the 3s killing him, Durant is over 40% from 3, so it's not the 3 point shooting that is the problem. It's the turnovers that are the problem, again, it's the lack of offensive rebounds, again. It's the same problem as before, it's the roster construction being too small and too redundant. Also, let's not forget the atrocious defense.
Yup, yup, yup, and yup.
Synchronicity and all that jazz, man.

"Cool is getting us blown out!"
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Ring_Wanted
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Re: Suns News: Week 10 (12/23 - 12/29)

Post by Ring_Wanted »

Split T wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2024 11:44 am
The offense has actually been ok…I’m not going to complain about that…but it might be because Tyus and Royce are shooting at ridiculous percentages.

I listened to the timeline pod this morning and our on/off is atrocious with Beal. He and Nurk are the big problems according to the numbers.

Funny enough, Beal’s best numbers are when he’s on and Book/KD are out. We are atrocious with Beal/KD and an absolutely abysmal -19 net rating with Beal/Book. Beal doesn’t work with those 2.

I think I’m beyond ready to bench Nurk. Just start Plumlee. Run Oso 25 minutes a game. Try to trade Beal for Jimmy, but if you can’t, bench him for Royce or Dunn. Here’s my rotation:

Tyus/Booker/Royce/KD/Plumlee
Morris/Beal/Allen/Dunn/Oso
100% agreed. If you can't pull moves to upgrade the roster, at least need to change the rotation. Nurkic removed altogether, Beal off the bench. If it doesn't work either, so be it, but at least you tried something.

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specialsauce
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Re: Suns News: Week 10 (12/23 - 12/29)

Post by specialsauce »

Ring_Wanted wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2024 12:33 pm
Split T wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2024 11:44 am
The offense has actually been ok…I’m not going to complain about that…but it might be because Tyus and Royce are shooting at ridiculous percentages.

I listened to the timeline pod this morning and our on/off is atrocious with Beal. He and Nurk are the big problems according to the numbers.

Funny enough, Beal’s best numbers are when he’s on and Book/KD are out. We are atrocious with Beal/KD and an absolutely abysmal -19 net rating with Beal/Book. Beal doesn’t work with those 2.

I think I’m beyond ready to bench Nurk. Just start Plumlee. Run Oso 25 minutes a game. Try to trade Beal for Jimmy, but if you can’t, bench him for Royce or Dunn. Here’s my rotation:

Tyus/Booker/Royce/KD/Plumlee
Morris/Beal/Allen/Dunn/Oso
100% agreed. If you can't pull moves to upgrade the roster, at least need to change the rotation. Nurkic removed altogether, Beal off the bench. If it doesn't work either, so be it, but at least you tried something.
Yup

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ShelC
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Re: Suns News: Week 10 (12/23 - 12/29)

Post by ShelC »

The numbers look good for the offense but it's still not reliable offense. We used to be surgical in the halfcourt, operating with real precision knowing who was getting the shot and where it was coming from. Now it just feels like ISO leading to kickouts leading to dribble penetration (because defenses are running guys off the line) leading to more kickouts. Every possession feels so much more difficult than it should be given our talent.

The reason Beal looks so good on his own is because that's what he's gotten used to the last 10 years. Being the best player and only offensive weapon on sht teams. He doesn't know how to play with other talent and I don't think his style is even conducive to winning unless maybe it's in a bench scoring role.

I've been saying for weeks we need to strip the roster/rotation down because in this case, less is more. It won't happen tho, we won't just sit guys for no reason. And I'd also start Monte over Tyus.

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Split T
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Re: Suns News: Week 10 (12/23 - 12/29)

Post by Split T »

ShelC wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2024 1:02 pm
The numbers look good for the offense but it's still not reliable offense. We used to be surgical in the halfcourt, operating with real precision knowing who was getting the shot and where it was coming from. Now it just feels like ISO leading to kickouts leading to dribble penetration (because defenses are running guys off the line) leading to more kickouts. Every possession feels so much more difficult than it should be given our talent.

The reason Beal looks so good on his own is because that's what he's gotten used to the last 10 years. Being the best player and only offensive weapon on sht teams. He doesn't know how to play with other talent and I don't think his style is even conducive to winning unless maybe it's in a bench scoring role.

I've been saying for weeks we need to strip the roster/rotation down because in this case, less is more. It won't happen tho, we won't just sit guys for no reason. And I'd also start Monte over Tyus.
The first paragraph is because we had Chris Paul before. We aren’t going to have the same offense without him.

What is your reasoning for starting Monte over Tyus?

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ShelC
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Re: Suns News: Week 10 (12/23 - 12/29)

Post by ShelC »

We had a similar offense built around Book with Rubio at PG a year earlier.

I'd start Monte over Tyus because I think he provides more resistance defensively. Bigger, stronger, just as solid handling the ball, can shoot the 3 and also step in for the midrange shot. He's probably not as good a playmaker but that doesn't matter since KD, Book, Nurk and Beal are all playing PG on their own.

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Split T
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Re: Suns News: Week 10 (12/23 - 12/29)

Post by Split T »

ShelC wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2024 1:47 pm
We had a similar offense built around Book with Rubio at PG a year earlier.

I'd start Monte over Tyus because I think he provides more resistance defensively. Bigger, stronger, just as solid handling the ball, can shoot the 3 and also step in for the midrange shot. He's probably not as good a playmaker but that doesn't matter since KD, Book, Nurk and Beal are all playing PG on their own.
Book did a lot more playmaking that year than with CP3…Book is also playing more off ball this year than he ever has…At least his self created shots are at an all time low.

I just think your talking about very small things with Monte over Tyus…Beal and Booker still starting as well is the problem. Can’t be that small 1-3.

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ShelC
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Re: Suns News: Week 10 (12/23 - 12/29)

Post by ShelC »

Problem solved!


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Cap
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Re: Suns News: Week 10 (12/23 - 12/29)

Post by Cap »

People have been saying we need an asshole on the team. Bev certainly qualifies as an asshole.
“Are you crazy?! You think I’m going to go for seven years and try to get there? You enjoy the 2030 draft picks that we have holding? I want to try to see the game today.” — Ish 3/13/25

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TOO
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Re: Suns News: Week 10 (12/23 - 12/29)

Post by TOO »

Cap wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2024 4:02 pm
People have been saying we need an asshole on the team. Bev certainly qualifies as an asshole.
I believe every player on this team has an asshole, that's not the problem.
Love, Hurts.

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Cap
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Re: Suns News: Week 10 (12/23 - 12/29)

Post by Cap »

TOO wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2024 4:17 pm
Cap wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2024 4:02 pm
People have been saying we need an asshole on the team. Bev certainly qualifies as an asshole.
I believe every player on this team has an asshole, that's not the problem.
Not sure. Some of them are so full of shit that they don’t seem to be using their assholes if they have them.
“Are you crazy?! You think I’m going to go for seven years and try to get there? You enjoy the 2030 draft picks that we have holding? I want to try to see the game today.” — Ish 3/13/25

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specialsauce
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Re: Suns News: Week 10 (12/23 - 12/29)

Post by specialsauce »

Pat Bev is an asshole but he won't see the floor nor should he. We need assholes on the court. We need some life and personality out there. All the players on this team seem to color coordinate their underwear drawer.

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Re: Suns News: Week 10 (12/23 - 12/29)

Post by iLLmatic »

specialsauce wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2024 4:28 pm
Pat Bev is an asshole but he won't see the floor nor should he. We need assholes on the court. We need some life and personality out there. All the players on this team seem to color coordinate their underwear drawer.
We need an asshole on the team who’s actually good at basketball. Pat Beverly sucks.

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Kryptonic
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Re: Suns News: Week 10 (12/23 - 12/29)

Post by Kryptonic »

Blow this team up please.

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Charlie Smithy!
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Re: Suns News: Week 10 (12/23 - 12/29)

Post by Charlie Smithy! »

Kryptonic wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2024 9:51 pm
Blow this team up please.
Like Krypton?🥹🥹🥹

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