Thought experiment: you're the GM, what do you do?

LazarusLong · Post by **LazarusLong** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:23 am

Any roster moves are akin to arranging deck chairs on the Titanic until they get rid of Babby and get a strategic basketball mind in there to use McD to help implement a plan.

Indy · Post by **Indy** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:17 am

LazarusLong wrote:Any roster moves are akin to arranging deck chairs on the Titanic until they get rid of Babby and get a strategic basketball mind in there to use McD to help implement a plan.

That is exactly right. I know he gets some hate around here, but Ryan is the just the GM--a general manager. He is there to help manage the roster, make decisions on which guys are worth the contract, work the phones to find out what players are available and how much. He basically puts a price on guys heads.

The strategic vision of what he needs to achieve is set in place by his boss. Some teams have the GM as that boss too, but we don't. We chose to have Babby be in charge of that, and I think that is a bad thing. We need someone that looks beyond individual players.

Sunsfan4life · Post by **Sunsfan4life** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:17 am

ShelC wrote:If you're keeping the roster in tact, Hornacek has to go (sorry Jeff). I'd hire Mike Malone and then make a play for Boogie. I'm not hiring Malone because I think it gets me Cousins (Cousins really liked Malone), I think Malone's discipline is needed for the roster. It may take a year for guys to get his system and to break bad habits but I think we'd be a lot better in the long run. And if Cousins takes notice, great. I just don't want people to think Malone is a proxy hire so to get Cousins to force a trade here to play for a guy he likes. That's part of it, but i think Malone is a hell of an Xs and Os coach and the kind of guy needed for this roster.

If we're keeping Hornacek, I think you have to commit to one PG, for me Knight, and try and trade Bledsoe. Knight I think can run the system better but like Hornacek said, we need more shooters.

I'd try and trade the Morris Bro to Detroit for a re-signed Monroe.

I can get on board with this, but what do you think Monroe is worth as a FA and do you think he and Len are a contending frontcourt?

Also, I'd let Jeff stay, but I do like Mike Malone. Good coach....

ShelC · Post by **ShelC** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:22 am

I think, in today's terms, Monroe is worth 14mil. Bigs always cost more and I think he and Len can complement each other because Monroe can play out high and passes well. He and Len may not be the most athletic duo, but they've got great size for the 4/5 spots. And I'd also be OK with Monroe playing the 5 if needed so long as we get a hustle/energy 4 off the bench.

OE32 · Post by **OE32** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:30 am

I say we trade Marcus Morris and our pick to the Pistons for their pick. The Pistons hold Marcus Morris as ransom for a Monroe-Keef swap.

Post by **Mori Chu** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:50 am

I like Monroe, but if we signed a guy like that to be our starting PF, we're signing up to never have more than 3 shooters on the floor at a given time. Isn't the league turning into a place where you want a Channing Frye, a Kevin Love, rather than a Monroe? In theory a guy like Markieff Morris is a great NBA PF to have these days, if only he would defend and rebound a little better or run the pick-n-roll properly.

Sunsfan4life · Post by **Sunsfan4life** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:57 am

I like Monroe but think he will be seeking more then 14mil this off-season.

Didn't he turn down 4/48 last yr? I could be wrong...

If we had the option to flip Bledsoe for Rubio would you do it? Weren't the Wolves after him last off-season?

OE32 · Post by **OE32** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:58 am

Markieff is probably a better player than Monroe. There. I said it. And yet, we (including I) want to trade him. Why? Because YOU KNOW WHAT TIME IT IS.

Dan H · Post by **Dan H** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:00 am

OE32 wrote:Markieff is probably a better player than Monroe. There. I said it. And yet, we (including I) want to trade him. Why? Because YOU KNOW WHAT TIME IT IS.

Lunchtime? Gametime?

Post by **carey** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:00 am

LazarusLong wrote:Any roster moves are akin to arranging deck chairs on the Titanic until they get rid of Babby and get a strategic basketball mind in there to use McD to help implement a plan.

Indy wrote: That is exactly right. I know he gets some hate around here, but Ryan is the just the GM--a general manager. He is there to help manage the roster, make decisions on which guys are worth the contract, work the phones to find out what players are available and how much. He basically puts a price on guys heads.

The strategic vision of what he needs to achieve is set in place by his boss. Some teams have the GM as that boss too, but we don't. We chose to have Babby be in charge of that, and I think that is a bad thing. We need someone that looks beyond individual players.

That really isn't Babby's job at all here. Babby is the negotiations, contracts, and cap guy. McDonough is the basketball blueprint / roster shaping guy. That's the way the team has said it runs since the beginning. Supposedly they all function as a unit and make decisions together. If we were to separate them into clearly defined roles that is what they would be though. You guys kind of have it backwards.

Post by **carey** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:03 am

Sunsfan4life wrote:If we had the option to flip Bledsoe for Rubio would you do it? Weren't the Wolves after him last off-season?

No. Ruibio can pass, but it's the only thing he does at an NBA level. You can't be a starting PG in this league and shoot as bad as he does. 37% from the field and like 26% from 3? We would be roasting him every night worse than Bledsoe.

For the record I'd rather Markieff at 8M/yr than Monroe at 14M/yr.

Post by **Superbone** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:21 am

carey wrote:
LazarusLong wrote:Any roster moves are akin to arranging deck chairs on the Titanic until they get rid of Babby and get a strategic basketball mind in there to use McD to help implement a plan.

Indy wrote: That is exactly right. I know he gets some hate around here, but Ryan is the just the GM--a general manager. He is there to help manage the roster, make decisions on which guys are worth the contract, work the phones to find out what players are available and how much. He basically puts a price on guys heads.

The strategic vision of what he needs to achieve is set in place by his boss. Some teams have the GM as that boss too, but we don't. We chose to have Babby be in charge of that, and I think that is a bad thing. We need someone that looks beyond individual players.
That really isn't Babby's job at all here. Babby is the negotiations, contracts, and cap guy. McDonough is the basketball blueprint / roster shaping guy. That's the way the team has said it runs since the beginning. Supposedly they all function as a unit and make decisions together. If we were to separate them into clearly defined roles that is what they would be though. You guys kind of have it backwards.

Agreed.

Sunsfan4life · Post by **Sunsfan4life** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:25 am

Kieffs deal is a solid. Mcdonaugh really has done a good job of not locking up our cap with bad deals. Even though I think he overpaid for Bled, I think he can easily flip that deal as well.

The problem is He has to get out from the mindset of Bledsoe being the lead guard on this team...

Indy · Post by **Indy** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:32 am

carey wrote:
LazarusLong wrote:Any roster moves are akin to arranging deck chairs on the Titanic until they get rid of Babby and get a strategic basketball mind in there to use McD to help implement a plan.

Indy wrote: That is exactly right. I know he gets some hate around here, but Ryan is the just the GM--a general manager. He is there to help manage the roster, make decisions on which guys are worth the contract, work the phones to find out what players are available and how much. He basically puts a price on guys heads.

The strategic vision of what he needs to achieve is set in place by his boss. Some teams have the GM as that boss too, but we don't. We chose to have Babby be in charge of that, and I think that is a bad thing. We need someone that looks beyond individual players.
That really isn't Babby's job at all here. Babby is the negotiations, contracts, and cap guy. McDonough is the basketball blueprint / roster shaping guy. That's the way the team has said it runs since the beginning. Supposedly they all function as a unit and make decisions together. If we were to separate them into clearly defined roles that is what they would be though. You guys kind of have it backwards.

That is not the impression I get from hearing them talk at all. I have a hard time believing that Babby is not the ultimate decision maker, that takes input from Ryan and Jeff.

Don't get me wrong--I don't think it is all Babby's fault and Jeff and Ryan have done all they can. I just don't feel we have the right vision, and like it or not, the org chart says that is Babby's job.

LazarusLong · Post by **LazarusLong** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:02 am

Indy wrote:
carey wrote:
LazarusLong wrote:Any roster moves are akin to arranging deck chairs on the Titanic until they get rid of Babby and get a strategic basketball mind in there to use McD to help implement a plan.

Indy wrote: That is exactly right. I know he gets some hate around here, but Ryan is the just the GM--a general manager. He is there to help manage the roster, make decisions on which guys are worth the contract, work the phones to find out what players are available and how much. He basically puts a price on guys heads.

The strategic vision of what he needs to achieve is set in place by his boss. Some teams have the GM as that boss too, but we don't. We chose to have Babby be in charge of that, and I think that is a bad thing. We need someone that looks beyond individual players.
That really isn't Babby's job at all here. Babby is the negotiations, contracts, and cap guy. McDonough is the basketball blueprint / roster shaping guy. That's the way the team has said it runs since the beginning. Supposedly they all function as a unit and make decisions together. If we were to separate them into clearly defined roles that is what they would be though. You guys kind of have it backwards.
That is not the impression I get from hearing them talk at all. I have a hard time believing that Babby is not the ultimate decision maker, that takes input from Ryan and Jeff.

Don't get me wrong--I don't think it is all Babby's fault and Jeff and Ryan have done all they can. I just don't feel we have the right vision, and like it or not, the org chart says that is Babby's job.

Babby has a great deal of influence and has a direct line to Sarver; he's Sarver's right-hand man. He's the organizational bagman. Of course, the blame for selecting and confiding in Babby rests with Sarver. Therein lies the bigger problem. Until the thinking shifts from "branding issues" and other fluff, the Suns are doomed.

ShelC · Post by **ShelC** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:44 am

McD is definitely the day to day guy dealing with other execs, scouts. Babby is the admin guy who handles contracts and cap, but is the decision maker in the end. IIRC, it was Babby who went to the Morris Bros with the money and told them to split it. Maybe I missed it but it didn't seem like McD had a hand in that. Wouldn't surprise me if he wasn't on board. Those two always seemed like Babby's guys.

With Monroe vs the stretch 4 concept...the teams that advance in the playoffs have bigs that play close to the basket. Live by the jumper, die by the jumper. Now Monroe can step out to 16ft and knock it down. He doesn't have 3pt range, but Markeiff isn't shooting those either. He's taking contested 2s. Yea, we should get dead eye shooters at the 2 and 3 (which may not bode well for Archie and TJ) but you don't need 3 shooters on the court. Spurs have done just fine with 2. Griffin/Jordan don't shoot 3s. Randoph/Gasol don't shoot 3s. Noah/Gasol/Gibson don't shoot 3s.

Indy · Post by **Indy** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:26 am

Yeah, honestly, I want my 1 and 2 to be great shooters, with my 3 to have the threat but be better on the move (like TJ). The need for a stretch 4 or 5 is when you have your PG running around the lane all night. We don't have anyone like that.

Shabazz · Post by **Shabazz** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 3:03 pm

McDonough on Burns and Gambo now.

Post by **carey** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 3:32 pm

Shabazz wrote:McDonough on Burns and Gambo now.

Yawn inducing interview with no insight on anything other than they are still really high on Knight. Meh.

Robot · Post by **Robot** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 4:08 pm

Something needs to happen with Knight and Bledsoe -- that is #1 . Bled doesn't appear to have a personality from what I can tell and that is true on and off the court. He doesn't seem to have that passion or sense of awareness about himself and his legacy that good/great/enjoyable to watch players have. Knight -- I have no idea. at all. I have no idea if he is good. Bucks fans seemed to not miss him at all from what I've read . However, he seems to be smarter and more self aware than Bled

Hornacek should go. At BEST he is perfectly average. A truly mediocre coach who is getting less than what is available out of his players. He is not good with strategy, not good with XOs and seems 'set in his way' about how a team should go. I think the way Dragic/Bled were handled was a major mistake and it's his fault, partially, that we ended up with an issue there. He is not a good leader. Being a good leader or having a vision for what you want to do -- those are both critical. He appears to have neither, which is why he is mediocre/average

I think we should keep Keiff unless something great is avail. He seems to be developing and I would be interested to see him under a different coaching regime. He's young enough his ceiling is not hit and he appears to have improved from year to year thus far. His contract is good and there are not many alternatives that would be avail and are young/improving [ Monroe, Cousins ?? Cousins won't be avail ]

We have to prey that Len can survive injury and improve. He had flashes this year but has become very passive , started taking rushed/stupid shots and just feels non present as of late.

TJ has potential for sure as does Archie but both need time on the court to improve. Obviously keep them

Re-sign Wright if it makes sense $$$ wise as Len develops. Bring in some smart BB vets to flesh out the bench and balance the team's age/experience ratio . Having a ton of young players who never plays doesn't help anyone

Tucker might be more valuable to another team at this point, maybe package and trade or trade up in the draft.

Oh and draft well, in genera

-R

Phx-Suns.Net

Thought experiment: you're the GM, what do you do?

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