Suns News: Week 7 2/1-2/7

[specialsauce]

Do you remember 3 weeks ago when we were all wondering if DA would ever get a FTA or dunk the ball again?

I was shouting at the TV repeatedly and made mention a few times about his vagina showing up, or something derogatory and unnecessary along the same lines, on these very boards and the gameday threads. That doesn't change the fact that even if he doesn't become transcendent on offense, he can have a very long career as a defensive anchor and league leader in rebounds. There's value in Ayton even when he is a mess on offense for stretches. Watch the replays of the game winner last night. Set a good screen to free Booker. When Zion loses his athleticism to injury, and it will happen, what else is he going to be able to provide a team?

How many GMs in the league would rather have Ayton over Zion?

Zero

[Split T]

My main criticism of Zion isn't about health concerns, though I acknowledge there is some cause for concern there. It's about his game. I am leery of "volume scorer" players who are deficient in other areas. It seems like Zion is a guy who needs the ball in his hands and then bulls his way to the basket to get you 25-30 points a night in an ideal scenario. What else does he do? Is he a great passer? Rebounder? Defender? Shooter? Some of these guys end up being fool's gold, not good enough to really carry a team to title contention.

You’re right, he’s not a great defender, rebounder, passer, or shooter, but he’s elite in the paint. Sometimes all it takes is 1 elite skill. He can handle the ball well for a big and he’s not a non-passer or shooter. He’s still 20, I think there is still a ton of room for him to grow.

And not sure volume scorer is fair. He scores 24 a game on 16 shots. That’s very efficient.

I’m fine if his health scares people away, I’d hesitate to go all in on him because of that, but he still has best player on a contender potential..does anyone still think Ayton has that ceiling still?

[specialsauce]

Do you remember 3 weeks ago when we were all wondering if DA would ever get a FTA or dunk the ball again?

I was shouting at the TV repeatedly and made mention a few times about his vagina showing up, or something derogatory and unnecessary along the same lines, on these very boards and the gameday threads. That doesn't change the fact that even if he doesn't become transcendent on offense, he can have a very long career as a defensive anchor and league leader in rebounds. There's value in Ayton even when he is a mess on offense for stretches. Watch the replays of the game winner last night. Set a good screen to free Booker. When Zion loses his athleticism to injury, and it will happen, what else is he going to be able to provide a team?

You’re both right and wrong.

I wouldn’t give either of these players a max contract.

[Indy]

My main criticism of Zion isn't about health concerns, though I acknowledge there is some cause for concern there. It's about his game. I am leery of "volume scorer" players who are deficient in other areas. It seems like Zion is a guy who needs the ball in his hands and then bulls his way to the basket to get you 25-30 points a night in an ideal scenario. What else does he do? Is he a great passer? Rebounder? Defender? Shooter? Some of these guys end up being fool's gold, not good enough to really carry a team to title contention.

You’re right, he’s not a great defender, rebounder, passer, or shooter, but he’s elite in the paint. Sometimes all it takes is 1 elite skill. He can handle the ball well for a big and he’s not a non-passer or shooter. He’s still 20, I think there is still a ton of room for him to grow.

And not sure volume scorer is fair. He scores 24 a game on 16 shots. That’s very efficient.

I’m fine if his health scares people away, I’d hesitate to go all in on him because of that, but he still has best player on a contender potential..does anyone still think Ayton has that ceiling still?

How many elite skills does Book have? Book isn't an elite defender, passer, rebounder, or shooter. But man can he get buckets.

Makes me wonder--how many GMs in the league would take Zion over Booker if they made the same amount and you were starting a team from scratch?

[Indy]

Do you remember 3 weeks ago when we were all wondering if DA would ever get a FTA or dunk the ball again?

I was shouting at the TV repeatedly and made mention a few times about his vagina showing up, or something derogatory and unnecessary along the same lines, on these very boards and the gameday threads. That doesn't change the fact that even if he doesn't become transcendent on offense, he can have a very long career as a defensive anchor and league leader in rebounds. There's value in Ayton even when he is a mess on offense for stretches. Watch the replays of the game winner last night. Set a good screen to free Booker. When Zion loses his athleticism to injury, and it will happen, what else is he going to be able to provide a team?

You’re both right and wrong.

I wouldn’t give either of these players a max contract.

you may not, but both will get one.

[Flagrant Fowl]

I'm curious how many Pelicans games the Zion defenders watch. I've seen a fair bit of them and he's terrible on defense. He also doesn't really shoot outside of 10 feet. I think the organization is part of their problem, but I'm starting to wonder if he's a winning basketball player.

[Indy]

I'm curious how many Pelicans games the Zion defenders watch. I've seen a fair bit of them and he's terrible on defense. He also doesn't really shoot outside of 10 feet. I think the organization is part of their problem, but I'm starting to wonder if he's a winning basketball player.

How different was the story on booker his first 5 years? Zion has played 42 games.

[AmareIsGod]

Do you remember 3 weeks ago when we were all wondering if DA would ever get a FTA or dunk the ball again?

I was shouting at the TV repeatedly and made mention a few times about his vagina showing up, or something derogatory and unnecessary along the same lines, on these very boards and the gameday threads. That doesn't change the fact that even if he doesn't become transcendent on offense, he can have a very long career as a defensive anchor and league leader in rebounds. There's value in Ayton even when he is a mess on offense for stretches. Watch the replays of the game winner last night. Set a good screen to free Booker. When Zion loses his athleticism to injury, and it will happen, what else is he going to be able to provide a team?

How many GMs in the league would rather have Ayton over Zion?

Zero

I agree. Probably zero. But for our team, I wouldn't have Zion over Ayton. He wouldn't fit with the way our roster is constructed. He isn't going to help this team get closer to a championship. Like you said before, I'd trade for him and then flip him since other GMs see a ton of value in him, though that scenario would never happen and I honestly believe that by the time his rookie contract is up, he's going to be out from a serious injury or recovering from one. I don't have faith he's going to hold up. Just like Porzingis. Lots of folks here debated me until they were blue in the face that I was wrong about KP and his health several years ago. I was beyond wrong about Josh Jackson. The guy was a headcase. But I wasn't wrong about KP and why I wouldn't have traded for him.

[Flagrant Fowl]

I'm curious how many Pelicans games the Zion defenders watch. I've seen a fair bit of them and he's terrible on defense. He also doesn't really shoot outside of 10 feet. I think the organization is part of their problem, but I'm starting to wonder if he's a winning basketball player.

How different was the story on booker his first 5 years? Zion has played 42 games.

That's fair and you could be right, but again, how much do you watch him on the Pelicans? There's a lot of stuff to be concerned about if I'm considering trading for and trying to build a team around him. Right now, he's a hyper-athletic, one-way bowling ball. There isn't really a clear blueprint to becoming a contender with him as your best player, IMO.

[Split T]

I'm curious how many Pelicans games the Zion defenders watch. I've seen a fair bit of them and he's terrible on defense. He also doesn't really shoot outside of 10 feet. I think the organization is part of their problem, but I'm starting to wonder if he's a winning basketball player.

How different was the story on booker his first 5 years? Zion has played 42 games.

That's fair and you could be right, but again, how much do you watch him on the Pelicans? There's a lot of stuff to be concerned about if I'm considering trading for and trying to build a team around him. Right now, he's a hyper-athletic, one-way bowling ball. There isn't really a clear blueprint to becoming a contender with him as your best player, IMO.

All fair points, but would you trade for him if you already have someone to be your best player(Booker)?

[AmareIsGod]

I'm curious how many Pelicans games the Zion defenders watch. I've seen a fair bit of them and he's terrible on defense. He also doesn't really shoot outside of 10 feet. I think the organization is part of their problem, but I'm starting to wonder if he's a winning basketball player.

How different was the story on booker his first 5 years? Zion has played 42 games.

That's fair and you could be right, but again, how much do you watch him on the Pelicans? There's a lot of stuff to be concerned about if I'm considering trading for and trying to build a team around him. Right now, he's a hyper-athletic, one-way bowling ball. There isn't really a clear blueprint to becoming a contender with him as your best player, IMO.

All fair points, but would you trade for him if you already have someone to be your best player(Booker)?

No. I don't think he'd be a good fit alongside Booker. He's a ball dominant athletic bowling ball.

[ShelC]

[Flagrant Fowl]

I'm curious how many Pelicans games the Zion defenders watch. I've seen a fair bit of them and he's terrible on defense. He also doesn't really shoot outside of 10 feet. I think the organization is part of their problem, but I'm starting to wonder if he's a winning basketball player.

How different was the story on booker his first 5 years? Zion has played 42 games.

That's fair and you could be right, but again, how much do you watch him on the Pelicans? There's a lot of stuff to be concerned about if I'm considering trading for and trying to build a team around him. Right now, he's a hyper-athletic, one-way bowling ball. There isn't really a clear blueprint to becoming a contender with him as your best player, IMO.

All fair points, but would you trade for him if you already have someone to be your best player(Booker)?

It's tough because Booker is just an OK defender at best. Ayton, even at this stage in his development, covers a lot of defensive lapses on the perimeter or enables the Suns to play a more sound defensive scheme. I'm assuming the offensive end could be figured out, but I don't think it's really much more seamless than what we've already seen with Booker and Ayton.

Zion is kinda in the Ben Simmons territory right now offensively. They're both most effective with the ball in their hands, but neither can really shoot. Zion is a more aggressive scorer, but Simmons is the better ball handler and playmaker. I'm leery of letting a guy with an obvious deficit be the focal point of an offense. It's just too easy to schematically defend in the games that matter.

Zion probably needs a PnR ball handler like Chris Paul to get the most out of him, but that would require he learn how to reliably hit a jump shot. And then he'd need a stretch big who can defend the rim to cover for his lack of verticality on the defensive end.

[Split T]

I'm curious how many Pelicans games the Zion defenders watch. I've seen a fair bit of them and he's terrible on defense. He also doesn't really shoot outside of 10 feet. I think the organization is part of their problem, but I'm starting to wonder if he's a winning basketball player.

How different was the story on booker his first 5 years? Zion has played 42 games.

That's fair and you could be right, but again, how much do you watch him on the Pelicans? There's a lot of stuff to be concerned about if I'm considering trading for and trying to build a team around him. Right now, he's a hyper-athletic, one-way bowling ball. There isn't really a clear blueprint to becoming a contender with him as your best player, IMO.

All fair points, but would you trade for him if you already have someone to be your best player(Booker)?

It's tough because Booker is just an OK defender at best. Ayton, even at this stage in his development, covers a lot of defensive lapses on the perimeter or enables the Suns to play a more sound defensive scheme. I'm assuming the offensive end could be figured out, but I don't think it's really much more seamless than what we've already seen with Booker and Ayton.

Zion is kinda in the Ben Simmons territory right now offensively. They're both most effective with the ball in their hands, but neither can really shoot. Zion is a more aggressive scorer, but Simmons is the better ball handler and playmaker. I'm leery of letting a guy with an obvious deficit be the focal point of an offense. It's just too easy to schematically defend in the games that matter.

Zion probably needs a PnR ball handler like Chris Paul to get the most out of him, but that would require he learn how to reliably hit a jump shot. And then he'd need a stretch big who can defend the rim to cover for his lack of verticality on the defensive end.

Good points. I kinda view him like I view Giannis. Obviously Giannis has turned into an elite defensive player as well, but I think Zion could replicate the offense to a degree. At least I think the team building concept around him would be similar. Stretch 5, a good pnr ball handler, and shooters.

[JeremyG]

[Shabazz]

How different was the story on booker his first 5 years? Zion has played 42 games.

That's fair and you could be right, but again, how much do you watch him on the Pelicans? There's a lot of stuff to be concerned about if I'm considering trading for and trying to build a team around him. Right now, he's a hyper-athletic, one-way bowling ball. There isn't really a clear blueprint to becoming a contender with him as your best player, IMO.

All fair points, but would you trade for him if you already have someone to be your best player(Booker)?

It's tough because Booker is just an OK defender at best. Ayton, even at this stage in his development, covers a lot of defensive lapses on the perimeter or enables the Suns to play a more sound defensive scheme. I'm assuming the offensive end could be figured out, but I don't think it's really much more seamless than what we've already seen with Booker and Ayton.

Zion is kinda in the Ben Simmons territory right now offensively. They're both most effective with the ball in their hands, but neither can really shoot. Zion is a more aggressive scorer, but Simmons is the better ball handler and playmaker. I'm leery of letting a guy with an obvious deficit be the focal point of an offense. It's just too easy to schematically defend in the games that matter.

Zion probably needs a PnR ball handler like Chris Paul to get the most out of him, but that would require he learn how to reliably hit a jump shot. And then he'd need a stretch big who can defend the rim to cover for his lack of verticality on the defensive end.

Good points. I kinda view him like I view Giannis. Obviously Giannis has turned into an elite defensive player as well, but I think Zion could replicate the offense to a degree. At least I think the team building concept around him would be similar. Stretch 5, a good pnr ball handler, and shooters.

They haven't done Zion any favors by pairing Zion with Steven Adams. That was a strange move that's playing out like the skeptics predicted. He'd look a lot better next to Brook Lopez or a defensive PF who can space the floor.

[bajanguy008]

I don't know what the Covid situation is like over there
My initial reaction to the tweet was Oohhh interesting , guess that's good for the team/fans but some interesting comments in this thread (especially from notable Suns folks)

[Split T]

That's fair and you could be right, but again, how much do you watch him on the Pelicans? There's a lot of stuff to be concerned about if I'm considering trading for and trying to build a team around him. Right now, he's a hyper-athletic, one-way bowling ball. There isn't really a clear blueprint to becoming a contender with him as your best player, IMO.

All fair points, but would you trade for him if you already have someone to be your best player(Booker)?

It's tough because Booker is just an OK defender at best. Ayton, even at this stage in his development, covers a lot of defensive lapses on the perimeter or enables the Suns to play a more sound defensive scheme. I'm assuming the offensive end could be figured out, but I don't think it's really much more seamless than what we've already seen with Booker and Ayton.

Zion is kinda in the Ben Simmons territory right now offensively. They're both most effective with the ball in their hands, but neither can really shoot. Zion is a more aggressive scorer, but Simmons is the better ball handler and playmaker. I'm leery of letting a guy with an obvious deficit be the focal point of an offense. It's just too easy to schematically defend in the games that matter.

Zion probably needs a PnR ball handler like Chris Paul to get the most out of him, but that would require he learn how to reliably hit a jump shot. And then he'd need a stretch big who can defend the rim to cover for his lack of verticality on the defensive end.

Good points. I kinda view him like I view Giannis. Obviously Giannis has turned into an elite defensive player as well, but I think Zion could replicate the offense to a degree. At least I think the team building concept around him would be similar. Stretch 5, a good pnr ball handler, and shooters.

They haven't done Zion any favors by pairing Zion with Steven Adams. That was a strange move that's playing out like the skeptics predicted. He'd look a lot better next to Brook Lopez or a defensive PF who can space the floor.

Ya I never understood the Adams move, especially signing him to an extension.

[Mori Chu]

Man, that news that they're allowing fans at Suns games bums me out. Do you get a refund if you die?

[Wally_West]