Suns 2022 Off-Season Thread

[Shabazz]

[Split T]

Knew it would happen, but Butler left off looks bad in hindsight

[Indy]

[Flagrant Fowl]

Knew it would happen, but Butler left off looks bad in hindsight

It's between him and LeBron, and I'm OK with LeBron getting the spot with him putting up 30/8/6.

[SunsRIt]

Fischer didn't just make up "any center"--that's what his sources are saying.

As others have said…his source is “league figures” making assumptions on the suns. You’re taking that and turning it into a fact that the suns wouldn’t pay Giannis, Embiid, or Jokic. I know you’re just trying to paint them as incompetent because they won’t pay your boy Ayton, but that’s a major stretch.

Those 3 you mentioned transcend position…they are just superstars, their position doesn’t matter. Ayton is not that, not close.

I’m pretty sure he is closer than you give him credit for. The guy is still only 23.

Jokic is 26 and was an MVP the last 2 years and has been an all-star since 23.
Embiid is 27 and been an all-star since 23 and has been the best player on playoff teams since 23.
Giannis is 27 and been an all-star since 22, DPOY, 2xMVP, Finals MVP.

I guess that means he has hit his ceiling.

[TOO]

I like Booker, but fuck man he ain't a 50m per guy lol.

[Split T]

Knew it would happen, but Butler left off looks bad in hindsight

It's between him and LeBron, and I'm OK with LeBron getting the spot with him putting up 30/8/6.

Or Siakam’s spot

[Flagrant Fowl]

Knew it would happen, but Butler left off looks bad in hindsight

It's between him and LeBron, and I'm OK with LeBron getting the spot with him putting up 30/8/6.

Or Siakam’s spot

Nah, I'm not buying that. Pascal played 11 more games and put up better numbers pretty much across the board.

[Split T]

Knew it would happen, but Butler left off looks bad in hindsight

It's between him and LeBron, and I'm OK with LeBron getting the spot with him putting up 30/8/6.

Or Siakam’s spot

Nah, I'm not buying that. Pascal played 11 more games and put up better numbers pretty much across the board.

Right, I’m not saying he deserved it based on regular season play. Just saying that after the playoffs Butler has had it feels weird leaving him out.

I know only regular season counts, but I guess I’m also saying we shouldn’t just count regular season.

[Flagrant Fowl]

Knew it would happen, but Butler left off looks bad in hindsight

It's between him and LeBron, and I'm OK with LeBron getting the spot with him putting up 30/8/6.

Or Siakam’s spot

Nah, I'm not buying that. Pascal played 11 more games and put up better numbers pretty much across the board.

Right, I’m not saying he deserved it based on regular season play. Just saying that after the playoffs Butler has had it feels weird leaving him out.

I know only regular season counts, but I guess I’m also saying we shouldn’t just count regular season.

I disagree. The regular season is already discounted enough by media and fans. The Playoffs are a separate entity and the officiating changes so much that it sometimes resembles an entirely different kind of basketball.

[Vladimir_Taltos]

Some combination of Nuric and Lilllard for Ayton, Cam?, a pick or two?

VT

[Drewsprocket]

I don’t mind the Bill Simmons trade suggestion: Ayton to Magic for WC Jr + Cole Anthony.
WC Jr is getting better offensively, has nice blow by defensive numbers, Cole Anthony is a gamer and solid pg.

[Flagrant Fowl]

I don’t mind the Bill Simmons trade suggestion: Ayton to Magic for WC Jr + Cole Anthony.
WC Jr is getting better offensively, has nice blow by defensive numbers, Cole Anthony is a gamer and solid pg.

I believe that was a SplitT special. That trade won't happen because I don't believe the Magic think Ayton is worth paying more than twice as much as Carter Jr.

[Wally_West]

You gotta super max Booker. No problem with it whatsoever. Get it done.


To be honest, if you don’t want to do because you don’t think he’s worth it then just blow up the team right now, no point in continuing this.

[Split T]

I don’t mind the Bill Simmons trade suggestion: Ayton to Magic for WC Jr + Cole Anthony.
WC Jr is getting better offensively, has nice blow by defensive numbers, Cole Anthony is a gamer and solid pg.

I believe that was a SplitT special. That trade won't happen because I don't believe the Magic think Ayton is worth paying more than twice as much as Carter Jr.

Ya I’d love it, but it looks too good to be true now

[Indy]

Fischer didn't just make up "any center"--that's what his sources are saying.

As others have said…his source is “league figures” making assumptions on the suns. You’re taking that and turning it into a fact that the suns wouldn’t pay Giannis, Embiid, or Jokic. I know you’re just trying to paint them as incompetent because they won’t pay your boy Ayton, but that’s a major stretch.

Those 3 you mentioned transcend position…they are just superstars, their position doesn’t matter. Ayton is not that, not close.

I’m pretty sure he is closer than you give him credit for. The guy is still only 23.

Jokic is 26 and was an MVP the last 2 years and has been an all-star since 23.
Embiid is 27 and been an all-star since 23 and has been the best player on playoff teams since 23.
Giannis is 27 and been an all-star since 22, DPOY, 2xMVP, Finals MVP.

I guess that means he has hit his ceiling.

Not saying that at all. Just pointing out how much more those guys have accomplished in the league, and it isn't like they are much older or weren't doing more at his age than he is. To say they are close in performance seems crazy to me.

[Superbone]

As others have said…his source is “league figures” making assumptions on the suns. You’re taking that and turning it into a fact that the suns wouldn’t pay Giannis, Embiid, or Jokic. I know you’re just trying to paint them as incompetent because they won’t pay your boy Ayton, but that’s a major stretch.

Those 3 you mentioned transcend position…they are just superstars, their position doesn’t matter. Ayton is not that, not close.

I’m pretty sure he is closer than you give him credit for. The guy is still only 23.

Jokic is 26 and was an MVP the last 2 years and has been an all-star since 23.
Embiid is 27 and been an all-star since 23 and has been the best player on playoff teams since 23.
Giannis is 27 and been an all-star since 22, DPOY, 2xMVP, Finals MVP.

I guess that means he has hit his ceiling.

Not saying that at all. Just pointing out how much more those guys have accomplished in the league, and it isn't like they are much older or weren't doing more at his age than he is. To say they are close in performance seems crazy to me.

And like I keep saying, those guys are alphas. Ayton is a beta. Ayton hasn’t peaked yet but he’s not going to become an aggressive player like those three. He’s going to continue to be a skilled big man that avoids contact. I’d love to be surprised but I really doubt it.

[JeremyG]

Bridges let Middleton score at will and yet he got paid. In fact, that may have been the biggest difference in the series (40 points in the momentum-swinging Game 4). Without Middleton, the Bucks were eliminated in the second round.

The suns would gladly have signed Ayton to a 4/90 deal like bridges got

That's not even close to fair market value for Ayton, so what's your point? But setting that aside, where's your proof? All I've seen is that they didn't offer him any contract extension at all, and that they did not want to sign him long-term (4 years). So I actually doubt they would have gladly signed him to that deal.

Yes I realize it’s not his market value…but do you realize then why your argument saying Bridges got paid doesn’t make sense? Simply Bridges was willing to accept what the suns were willing to offer. You can’t hold Ayton and Bridges to the same standard when one wants 170 million and the other accepted 90 million.

And both of their flaws in full display, I would take Mikal @90M over Ayton @170M every fucking day. No question. You can't convince me there is a world where Ayton is worth two Mikals.

Lol, that's not double the salary, it's $34M/yr vs. $22.5M/yr. Bridges' contract is only for 4 years. And the only realistic scenario now would be matching a $130M/4 yr contract for DA.

[JeremyG]

People defending Ayton here like he didn’t come out saying he stays up late playing video games on game nights or never refused to sub into a playoff game all in the space of weeks before his RFA.

He never refused to sub into a playoff game. You're thinking of world champion Hall of Famer Scottie Pippen (#2 player on 6 title teams).

[specialsauce]

The recent Williams dynamic may simply echo consistent word—dating back to the trade deadline—from league sources with knowledge of the situation that Ayton is not particularly a favorite of Phoenix's head coach. Williams has purportedly griped about Ayton's waning focus, which some people contacted by B/R said has often been reflected by the ebbs of his playing time.

There's a stronger sense among league figures that Phoenix brass simply does not view Ayton, or any center, as a player worth greater than $30 million annually.

If the Suns let Ayton walk, league officials expect Phoenix to try and engineer a sign-and-trade for some frontcourt help. That would require tricky cap calculations and possibly a third team.

Perhaps Portland, where free-agent center Jusuf Nurkic is expected to command far less than Ayton on the open market, could be a trade partner. Detroit's longstanding willingness to discuss Jerami Grant could provide a window for Phoenix to nab a versatile frontcourt defender in return.

See that's the problem with the Suns' front office. They're literally insane. So much for everyone's dreams of landing KAT.

Also, do they not understand there's going to be a jump in the salary cap? Over $30M will be nothing.

And this argument (likely coming from the team) is just so shortsighted it's almost hilarious:

If the Suns could sign Biyombo midseason to just a veteran minimum deal and Chris Paul could steer him into a serviceable rotation player, could Paul not have the same success with a big man far less costly than Ayton's next deal?

Yeah, maybe Paul could...for what? Another 0.5 years? Lol.

Our 2 biggest problems haunting us for our future (and that destroyed us this postseason):

1. Monty's love for Chris.

2. Monty's hate for Deandre.

Bingo