Suns 2022 Off-Season Thread

[Split T]

Everyone simmer down! We still have a long way to go before next season. At this rate, there's going to be a mass shooting on these boards. One minute we're telling jokes. The next minute we're name calling, bolding words and questioning opinions. This goes for saucy, FF, Indy, Drewsprocket, ShelC, SplitT, Sose, misterradiant and Mori.

Let it be known I got no problems with anybody on here and that I take nothing personal and mean nothing personal. I do get a little carried away come offseason though.

[Superbone]

In a vacuum, we cannot trade DA for a single player better than him at the same position.

And generally speaking you never get a player back better than the one you are sending out in a 1 for 1 trade unless that player has said they won't play anymore.

But you know what, having any center better than Ayton that wasn't Embiid or Jokic wouldn't have got us any further this year.

We need to stop thinking about this as who is a better player and instead look at who is a better fit. And that goes for every single position. You first pick who you are building your team around, then fill in from there. It is clear the Suns have not picked DA as their #1 guy. That is Devin Booker. You can argue and say he isn't a #1, but we did just see a team last year make the Finals with him as their best player, and he put up back to back 40 point games in the Finals and we wasted them. Now we need to find the best players we can to build around him. Mikal is a great start, but if he needs to go out to bring in a better fit, do it. Same with Paul or anyone.

One example of a trade that DID work was Larry Nance (my favorite Suns player at the time) for KJ, West, and Corbin.

[Mori Chu]

Folks are getting a bit emotional, but I think overall these are good discussions to have. This is a big inflection point for our current team and a big test for our young front office.

The more time passes the more it feels like the relationship between the team and Ayton is deteriorating, so maybe at this point it is about finding the best trade or plan to maximize his value as an outgoing asset. I still hate most of these trade proposals (the Spurs and Pistons can keep their trash, thank you very much), but we may just have to find the best deal we can find.

I for one would rather just sign/match the guy and wait until we can trade him for his full contract value, even if that meant a bit of turbulence for the coming season. I really don't like the idea of trading him for BYC compensation when that mostly means we'll have to take back "meh" contracts from bad teams with big cap space, like the aforementioned Spurs or Pistons. If we let him go sign another deal, match it, and keep him here until we can trade him, we'll be likely to get much more back for him. I just don't think I will believe we have any chance at a title if we ship out DA for some stiff center or low-efficiency scoring PF or a backup ballhandler we won't have minutes for. We shall see.

[Indy]

In a vacuum, we cannot trade DA for a single player better than him at the same position.

And generally speaking you never get a player back better than the one you are sending out in a 1 for 1 trade unless that player has said they won't play anymore.

But you know what, having any center better than Ayton that wasn't Embiid or Jokic wouldn't have got us any further this year.

We need to stop thinking about this as who is a better player and instead look at who is a better fit. And that goes for every single position. You first pick who you are building your team around, then fill in from there. It is clear the Suns have not picked DA as their #1 guy. That is Devin Booker. You can argue and say he isn't a #1, but we did just see a team last year make the Finals with him as their best player, and he put up back to back 40 point games in the Finals and we wasted them. Now we need to find the best players we can to build around him. Mikal is a great start, but if he needs to go out to bring in a better fit, do it. Same with Paul or anyone.

One example of a trade that DID work was Larry Nance (my favorite Suns player at the time) for KJ, West, and Corbin.

Nance was a MUCH better player than any of those 3 when they made the trade. We traded an all-star for a pu pu platter. But you know what, sometimes the best food is on the pu pu platter!

[Indy]

If teams are scared away (like from what that Hollinger article says) and nobody is willing to:

make him a max offer

and the teams that do want him are afraid to offer him a 120M deal (for example) because they know we will take the full time to match and they will lose out on any other FA they were targeting for a big splash

And we are the only people really left for DA.

But Jones knows he doesn't want to be here...

What do you do?

[Split T]

You go to Ayton and say look, no one wants you for the max. You try and talk him into returning and giving it another go at like 4/120. If he’s adamant at not being here, you say, well behave for 2 months and play like you have the last two years and we’ll find a deal once you’re eligible to be traded. Promise him that if he cooperates we will find a place for him that he wants and is happy with.

I doubt that happens though as I’m sure someone will be willing to max him or at least sign and trade for him, especially at like a 4/120 deal.

[Flagrant Fowl]

We have differing opinions and that's the reason for discourse.

Of course I could be wrong, but I don't think anyone here is taking any of these comments personally.

[Indy]

We have differing opinions and that's the reason for discourse.

Of course I could be wrong, but I don't think anyone here is taking any of these comments personally.

Exactly. And honestly if I could get paid to argue all day, I would.

[specialsauce]

We have differing opinions and that's the reason for discourse.

Of course I could be wrong, but I don't think anyone here is taking any of these comments personally.

Exactly. And honestly if I could get paid to argue all day, I would.

I would never post here if it was just a big circle jerk and you all were finally right I mean agreed with me.

It’s why I post more when times are bad than good- it’s no fun just saying we’re great no changes needed!

It’s more fun to talk about why we’re broken and how to fix it. It just happens to be that y’all do good drugs and have ridiculous ideas

[specialsauce]

In a vacuum, we cannot trade DA for a single player better than him at the same position.

And generally speaking you never get a player back better than the one you are sending out in a 1 for 1 trade unless that player has said they won't play anymore.

But you know what, having any center better than Ayton that wasn't Embiid or Jokic wouldn't have got us any further this year.

We need to stop thinking about this as who is a better player and instead look at who is a better fit. And that goes for every single position. You first pick who you are building your team around, then fill in from there. It is clear the Suns have not picked DA as their #1 guy. That is Devin Booker. You can argue and say he isn't a #1, but we did just see a team last year make the Finals with him as their best player, and he put up back to back 40 point games in the Finals and we wasted them. Now we need to find the best players we can to build around him. Mikal is a great start, but if he needs to go out to bring in a better fit, do it. Same with Paul or anyone.

One example of a trade that DID work was Larry Nance (my favorite Suns player at the time) for KJ, West, and Corbin.

Nance was a MUCH better player than any of those 3 when they made the trade. We traded an all-star for a pu pu platter. But you know what, sometimes the best food is on the pu pu platter!

Wtf is this old ass comparison?
We going to talk about WW1 next? The Roman Era? Jesus?

[Flagrant Fowl]

In a vacuum, we cannot trade DA for a single player better than him at the same position.

And generally speaking you never get a player back better than the one you are sending out in a 1 for 1 trade unless that player has said they won't play anymore.

But you know what, having any center better than Ayton that wasn't Embiid or Jokic wouldn't have got us any further this year.

We need to stop thinking about this as who is a better player and instead look at who is a better fit. And that goes for every single position. You first pick who you are building your team around, then fill in from there. It is clear the Suns have not picked DA as their #1 guy. That is Devin Booker. You can argue and say he isn't a #1, but we did just see a team last year make the Finals with him as their best player, and he put up back to back 40 point games in the Finals and we wasted them. Now we need to find the best players we can to build around him. Mikal is a great start, but if he needs to go out to bring in a better fit, do it. Same with Paul or anyone.

One example of a trade that DID work was Larry Nance (my favorite Suns player at the time) for KJ, West, and Corbin.

Nance was a MUCH better player than any of those 3 when they made the trade. We traded an all-star for a pu pu platter. But you know what, sometimes the best food is on the pu pu platter!

Wtf is this old ass comparison?
We going to talk about WW1 next? The Roman Era? Jesus?

This is how I feel when people talk about playing out of the post with Ayton.

[BKinSJC]

Wtf is this old ass comparison?
We going to talk about WW1 next? The Roman Era? Jesus?

Jesus for 30 pieces of silver was really bad, and Judas never recovered from making that deal.

[Superbone]

Nah, just “accept” that he will breach his contract and tank your business so you might as well cave to his demands and tank your own organization.

If you’re a Lamborghini dealer, just trade your Lamborghini for two Ford Escapes.

lol you are 98% hyperbole on this site.

I’d prefer if you said 100%

I wrote that first and then edited it. So I guess that means you prefer my unedited side.

Take the filters off let’s rumble !! Isn’t that what the internet is for

No.

[JeremyG]

I guess it depends on your team building philosophy. What gets you further in the playoffs? A top 5 center at 30-35M and a below average backup initiator (10-15M), or an average center (~15-20M) and an above average backup initiator (~25-30M)? They cost about the same.

You would rather have a backup guard (playing 20 mpg) for $25-30M than a top 5 center for $30-35M???

[JeremyG]

I'm still waiting for something like "Marion told the team in the locker room he was doing everything with no help" 2007 to explain it all.

Wait...what did I miss 15 years ago???

[JeremyG]

We have differing opinions and that's the reason for discourse.

Of course I could be wrong, but I don't think anyone here is taking any of these comments personally.

Exactly. And honestly if I could get paid to argue all day, I would.

Haha that's me exactly.

[JeremyG]

I'd be more interested in a trade that involves a mid/late lotto pick. I'd like to replace DA with a big like Mark WIlliams but I'm not sure the Suns even value bigs that much. They may know they have McGee and/or Biz locked in already for next year.

For me, it'd take DA signing some frontloaded poison pill max offer to even talk trade. If he's just signing a regular max offer, I'd match. But maybe the Suns are ready to move on and re-shape the roster.

I guess it depends on what DA's camp has said. If they said we prefer you don't match any offers because we want to play somewhere as the center of the offense, do you still match?

Yes, or you'll regret it forever like with Joe Johnson.

But if he absolutely demands out, then you'll have to do a S&T for mediocre assets, just like I've been predicting they will do since last summer.

I hope we don't lose you as a poster Jeremy if Ayton gets shipped out. I appreciate your conversation.

Thanks! I might post less for awhile (especially since I fully expect the team to be significantly worse next season), but I'll try to stick around for sure.

[JeremyG]

In a vacuum, we cannot trade DA for a single player better than him at the same position.

And generally speaking you never get a player back better than the one you are sending out in a 1 for 1 trade unless that player has said they won't play anymore.

But you know what, having any center better than Ayton that wasn't Embiid or Jokic wouldn't have got us any further this year.

We need to stop thinking about this as who is a better player and instead look at who is a better fit. And that goes for every single position. You first pick who you are building your team around, then fill in from there. It is clear the Suns have not picked DA as their #1 guy. That is Devin Booker. You can argue and say he isn't a #1, but we did just see a team last year make the Finals with him as their best player, and he put up back to back 40 point games in the Finals and we wasted them. Now we need to find the best players we can to build around him. Mikal is a great start, but if he needs to go out to bring in a better fit, do it. Same with Paul or anyone.

One example of a trade that DID work was Larry Nance (my favorite Suns player at the time) for KJ, West, and Corbin.

Nance was a MUCH better player than any of those 3 when they made the trade. We traded an all-star for a pu pu platter. But you know what, sometimes the best food is on the pu pu platter!

If you're rebuilding yes.

[SunsRIt]

In a vacuum, we cannot trade DA for a single player better than him at the same position.

And generally speaking you never get a player back better than the one you are sending out in a 1 for 1 trade unless that player has said they won't play anymore.

But you know what, having any center better than Ayton that wasn't Embiid or Jokic wouldn't have got us any further this year.

We need to stop thinking about this as who is a better player and instead look at who is a better fit. And that goes for every single position. You first pick who you are building your team around, then fill in from there. It is clear the Suns have not picked DA as their #1 guy. That is Devin Booker. You can argue and say he isn't a #1, but we did just see a team last year make the Finals with him as their best player, and he put up back to back 40 point games in the Finals and we wasted them. Now we need to find the best players we can to build around him. Mikal is a great start, but if he needs to go out to bring in a better fit, do it. Same with Paul or anyone.

One example of a trade that DID work was Larry Nance (my favorite Suns player at the time) for KJ, West, and Corbin.

It also included a draft pick that turned into Dan Majerle.

[Drewsprocket]

Everyone simmer down! We still have a long way to go before next season. At this rate, there's going to be a mass shooting on these boards. One minute we're telling jokes. The next minute we're name calling, bolding words and questioning opinions. This goes for saucy, FF, Indy, Drewsprocket, ShelC, SplitT, Sose, misterradiant and Mori.

Nobody asked you Spivey!

What great company! I’m honored and humbled. I have nothing but love for everyone on the board although I get wild with these Ayton rumors. I was a lurker way back in the early aughts and have carried many debates with me in my head over many years and summer months through college and in quiet moments at work obsessing over the Suns. Anyhoo, that being said, GO FRACK YOURSELF jk. Peace. And may Ayton fetch us a ring or someone who will get us one.