You never know. Saric was good at positioning his body on defense. OTOH, the refs were good at calling fouls on us no matter what we tried on Giannis as he barreled into us.ShadowHawke wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 10:32 amI think losing Saric impacted that series more than was realized at the time.
Monty Williams
Re: Monty Williams
"Too little, too late, too unbothered."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.
"Be Legendary."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.
"Be Legendary."
Re: Monty Williams
Stop it.ShadowHawke wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 10:32 amI think losing Saric impacted that series more than was realized at the time.
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Re: Monty Williams
I think this point gets overemphasized. The Heat were rolling with Kevin Love's corpse, Haywood Highsmith, and Duncan Robinson. The Lakers were giving meaningful minutes to Lonnie Walker, who was abysmal this year.
And again, it's not unforgivable that the Suns lost to Denver. It's how the team looked.
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Re: Monty Williams
Also, when people complain about the depth or players not named Book and KD, it's basically saying, "we couldn't win because we traded for Kevin Durant." Which is weird because Ishbia saying trading for Kevin Durant was all about winning. So like, what are we doing?
And complaining that Monty had to play Terrence Ross? Ross was brought in to play; he was recruited. He signs with the Suns over going to Dallas, and people are like, "oooo, KD effect, KD effect." But now the narrative is that we lost because we had to play him. Again, what are we doing?
And complaining that Monty had to play Terrence Ross? Ross was brought in to play; he was recruited. He signs with the Suns over going to Dallas, and people are like, "oooo, KD effect, KD effect." But now the narrative is that we lost because we had to play him. Again, what are we doing?
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- AmareIsGod
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Re: Monty Williams
We lost by 7 points in game 6 of the NBA Finals. Spectacular flameout?TOO wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:29 amYou're nicer than I am. I could give this year a pass, if they had showed some fight in the closeout game, but like the years previously, they did not. Just out with a whimper, 3 years in a row, that is on the coach.
What is smallball? I play basketball. I'm not a regular big man. I can switch from the center to the guards. The game is evolving. I'd be dominAyton if the WNBA would let me in. - Ayton
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Re: Monty Williams
I would also argue that besides losing a big body to put on Giannis, we also lost our primary ball distributor with the 2nd unit. Payne would drive to the hole and be able to have Saric bail him out if needed.Superbone wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 12:18 pmYou never know. Saric was good at positioning his body on defense. OTOH, the refs were good at calling fouls on us no matter what we tried on Giannis as he barreled into us.ShadowHawke wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 10:32 amI think losing Saric impacted that series more than was realized at the time.
Re: Monty Williams
Lead the series 2-0. Lost 4 in a row, couldn't even make it to 7 games. Complete capitulation.AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 1:08 pmWe lost by 7 points in game 6 of the NBA Finals. Spectacular flameout?
- AmareIsGod
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Re: Monty Williams
Agree to disagree then. Giannis was given the royal treatment. Breathe on the guy, take his elbow to the face, let him barrel into us. It didn't matter. It was a foul on the Suns. Kind of hard going up against that.TOO wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 1:09 pmLead the series 2-0. Lost 4 in a row, couldn't even make it to 7 games. Complete capitulation.AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 1:08 pmWe lost by 7 points in game 6 of the NBA Finals. Spectacular flameout?
What is smallball? I play basketball. I'm not a regular big man. I can switch from the center to the guards. The game is evolving. I'd be dominAyton if the WNBA would let me in. - Ayton
Re: Monty Williams
I don't think losing to MIL in 2021 was a flameout. Giannis Hulked up and became almost unstoppable. Getting blown out by the Mavs and Nuggets in elimination games in consecutive years was upsetting, though. And not just the score margin, but the way we seemed to have no plan, no adjustments, no ability to react to the game as we fell further and further behind. You can blame our supposedly shallow and crappy roster, and that roster did have flaws. But you get the sense that a different coach could have gotten more out of the same guys, could have had better defined roles beyond the core 4 guys. Guys like Craig, Okogie, Lee, Warren, Biz, they are all legit NBA rotation players. We should have been able to get more out of the roster we had.
Re: Monty Williams
I never really expected us to win this year, we needed an off-season to build the roster. And switching KD out for Mikal and CamJ wouldn’t have helped. We still would’ve lost.INFORMER wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 1:00 pmAlso, when people complain about the depth or players not named Book and KD, it's basically saying, "we couldn't win because we traded for Kevin Durant." Which is weird because Ishbia saying trading for Kevin Durant was all about winning. So like, what are we doing?
And complaining that Monty had to play Terrence Ross? Ross was brought in to play; he was recruited. He signs with the Suns over going to Dallas, and people are like, "oooo, KD effect, KD effect." But now the narrative is that we lost because we had to play him. Again, what are we doing?
What I’m doing is trying to explain the score. We lose 125-100 and there was a 5 minute stretch where we lost 25-2…so the other 43 minutes it was 100-98. I’m not trying to blame the loss on Terrence Ross. I’m saying it wasn’t exactly the meltdown that some of you are saying it is. It wasn’t the same as the Dallas game to me. That’s all.
We lost because Denver was better. I’ve never said otherwise.
Re: Monty Williams
You can get by on playing a guy like that when the other 4 players are good. We were playing Ross, Biyombo, Warren, and Craig at the same time. There’s a difference.INFORMER wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 12:42 pmI think this point gets overemphasized. The Heat were rolling with Kevin Love's corpse, Haywood Highsmith, and Duncan Robinson. The Lakers were giving meaningful minutes to Lonnie Walker, who was abysmal this year.
And again, it's not unforgivable that the Suns lost to Denver. It's how the team looked.
We all knew this team had depth issues. Everyone said we couldn’t afford an injury to our top 4…well 2 of our top 4 were out. We were starting Landale, Shamet, and Payne. Denver probably had 7 guys that would’ve been our 3rd best player.
Shouldn’t be a surprise that we get beat with the 4 worst players on the court on our team.
Re: Monty Williams
The point is you were left with a team that couldn't get out of the second round and essentially no resources; the alternative isn't that you would have advanced; it's that you would have a considerable amount of resources to improve without being tied to someone with a limited window.
I agree it isn't "the same" as Dallas, but it's close enough.Split T wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 2:05 pmWhat I’m doing is trying to explain the score. We lose 125-100 and there was a 5 minute stretch where we lost 25-2…so the other 43 minutes it was 100-98. I’m not trying to blame the loss on Terrence Ross. I’m saying it wasn’t exactly the meltdown that some of you are saying it is. It wasn’t the same as the Dallas game to me. That’s all.
And I can't hyper-focus on a stretch of play in the 2nd quarter of an NBA game and act like more than a half of basketball is meaningless.
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Re: Monty Williams
Did we? I'm sure some felt that way. I think plenty of others knew this team was Book and Durant. With Ayton's disappearing act, and CP3 fading in every single playoff run we've had with him, I'm not sure why someone would waste time banking on the top 4.
And this ultimately is another entry in the "so what are even doing" category: if CP3 is a necessary element of your bid to win it all, you've essentially got no chance.
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- specialsauce
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Re: Monty Williams
That’s the definition of flame outTOO wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 10:00 amLost 4 straight games, close or not, that's a whimper to me.Superbone wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 9:47 amFor the record, we didn't go out with a whimper the first year. All games were close.
- The Bobster
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Re: Monty Williams
How they lost to Milwaukee wasn't an embarassment. How they lost to Dallas and Denver was.
Author of The Basketball Draft Fact Book: A History of Professional Basketball's College Drafts
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Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695
Re: Monty Williams
Thanks, Shel. Tough getting fired while dealing with that family situation. Similar situation with Bud in Milwaukee. Wishing Monty and his wife the best, and hoping he helps Cunningham, Duren, and Ivey and co. to realize their potential.
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- Flagrant Fowl
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Re: Monty Williams
I'm taking the over on Pistons regular season wins in 2023-24.
Send me a PM if you're interested in joining the phx-suns.net fantasy basketball league.
Re: Monty Williams
Man, that sucks what Monty went through right after being fired. Talk about a double whammy! Did I read that right that the situation with his wife had improved? I wish him nothing but the best in Detroit. He was exactly what we needed when he came here and took us quickly to the NBA Finals. I will always cherish his time here and appreciate what he brought to the program.
"Too little, too late, too unbothered."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.
"Be Legendary."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.
"Be Legendary."
Re: Monty Williams
Very good bet. I will also.Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 4:30 pmI'm taking the over on Pistons regular season wins in 2023-24.
"Too little, too late, too unbothered."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.
"Be Legendary."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.
"Be Legendary."