Monty Williams

[Superbone]

I think losing Saric impacted that series more than was realized at the time.

You never know. Saric was good at positioning his body on defense. OTOH, the refs were good at calling fouls on us no matter what we tried on Giannis as he barreled into us.

[INFORMER]

I think losing Saric impacted that series more than was realized at the time.

Stop it.

[INFORMER]

It’s not completely his fault he had to play Biyombo, Ross, etc.

I think this point gets overemphasized. The Heat were rolling with Kevin Love's corpse, Haywood Highsmith, and Duncan Robinson. The Lakers were giving meaningful minutes to Lonnie Walker, who was abysmal this year.

And again, it's not unforgivable that the Suns lost to Denver. It's how the team looked.

[INFORMER]

Also, when people complain about the depth or players not named Book and KD, it's basically saying, "we couldn't win because we traded for Kevin Durant." Which is weird because Ishbia saying trading for Kevin Durant was all about winning. So like, what are we doing?

And complaining that Monty had to play Terrence Ross? Ross was brought in to play; he was recruited. He signs with the Suns over going to Dallas, and people are like, "oooo, KD effect, KD effect." But now the narrative is that we lost because we had to play him. Again, what are we doing?

[AmareIsGod]

I like Monty, nice guy, shitty tactician, thats an absolutely WILD deal, good for him. LMAO. Dude was below .500 before he took the Suns job IIRC.

And the highest winning percentage among all coaches over the last 3 seasons. A small piece to omit.

Don't forget the 3 SPECTACULAR flameouts.

I’d only count 1 flameout

You're nicer than I am. I could give this year a pass, if they had showed some fight in the closeout game, but like the years previously, they did not. Just out with a whimper, 3 years in a row, that is on the coach.

We lost by 7 points in game 6 of the NBA Finals. Spectacular flameout?

[ShadowHawke]

I think losing Saric impacted that series more than was realized at the time.

You never know. Saric was good at positioning his body on defense. OTOH, the refs were good at calling fouls on us no matter what we tried on Giannis as he barreled into us.

I would also argue that besides losing a big body to put on Giannis, we also lost our primary ball distributor with the 2nd unit. Payne would drive to the hole and be able to have Saric bail him out if needed.

[TOO]

And the highest winning percentage among all coaches over the last 3 seasons. A small piece to omit.

Don't forget the 3 SPECTACULAR flameouts.

I’d only count 1 flameout

You're nicer than I am. I could give this year a pass, if they had showed some fight in the closeout game, but like the years previously, they did not. Just out with a whimper, 3 years in a row, that is on the coach.

We lost by 7 points in game 6 of the NBA Finals. Spectacular flameout?

Lead the series 2-0. Lost 4 in a row, couldn't even make it to 7 games. Complete capitulation.

[AmareIsGod]

Don't forget the 3 SPECTACULAR flameouts.

I’d only count 1 flameout

You're nicer than I am. I could give this year a pass, if they had showed some fight in the closeout game, but like the years previously, they did not. Just out with a whimper, 3 years in a row, that is on the coach.

We lost by 7 points in game 6 of the NBA Finals. Spectacular flameout?

Lead the series 2-0. Lost 4 in a row, couldn't even make it to 7 games. Complete capitulation.

Agree to disagree then. Giannis was given the royal treatment. Breathe on the guy, take his elbow to the face, let him barrel into us. It didn't matter. It was a foul on the Suns. Kind of hard going up against that.

[Mori Chu]

I don't think losing to MIL in 2021 was a flameout. Giannis Hulked up and became almost unstoppable. Getting blown out by the Mavs and Nuggets in elimination games in consecutive years was upsetting, though. And not just the score margin, but the way we seemed to have no plan, no adjustments, no ability to react to the game as we fell further and further behind. You can blame our supposedly shallow and crappy roster, and that roster did have flaws. But you get the sense that a different coach could have gotten more out of the same guys, could have had better defined roles beyond the core 4 guys. Guys like Craig, Okogie, Lee, Warren, Biz, they are all legit NBA rotation players. We should have been able to get more out of the roster we had.

[Split T]

Also, when people complain about the depth or players not named Book and KD, it's basically saying, "we couldn't win because we traded for Kevin Durant." Which is weird because Ishbia saying trading for Kevin Durant was all about winning. So like, what are we doing?

And complaining that Monty had to play Terrence Ross? Ross was brought in to play; he was recruited. He signs with the Suns over going to Dallas, and people are like, "oooo, KD effect, KD effect." But now the narrative is that we lost because we had to play him. Again, what are we doing?

I never really expected us to win this year, we needed an off-season to build the roster. And switching KD out for Mikal and CamJ wouldn’t have helped. We still would’ve lost.

What I’m doing is trying to explain the score. We lose 125-100 and there was a 5 minute stretch where we lost 25-2…so the other 43 minutes it was 100-98. I’m not trying to blame the loss on Terrence Ross. I’m saying it wasn’t exactly the meltdown that some of you are saying it is. It wasn’t the same as the Dallas game to me. That’s all.

We lost because Denver was better. I’ve never said otherwise.

[Split T]

It’s not completely his fault he had to play Biyombo, Ross, etc.

I think this point gets overemphasized. The Heat were rolling with Kevin Love's corpse, Haywood Highsmith, and Duncan Robinson. The Lakers were giving meaningful minutes to Lonnie Walker, who was abysmal this year.

And again, it's not unforgivable that the Suns lost to Denver. It's how the team looked.

You can get by on playing a guy like that when the other 4 players are good. We were playing Ross, Biyombo, Warren, and Craig at the same time. There’s a difference.

We all knew this team had depth issues. Everyone said we couldn’t afford an injury to our top 4…well 2 of our top 4 were out. We were starting Landale, Shamet, and Payne. Denver probably had 7 guys that would’ve been our 3rd best player.

Shouldn’t be a surprise that we get beat with the 4 worst players on the court on our team.

[INFORMER]

I never really expected us to win this year, we needed an off-season to build the roster. And switching KD out for Mikal and CamJ wouldn’t have helped. We still would’ve lost.

The point is you were left with a team that couldn't get out of the second round and essentially no resources; the alternative isn't that you would have advanced; it's that you would have a considerable amount of resources to improve without being tied to someone with a limited window.

What I’m doing is trying to explain the score. We lose 125-100 and there was a 5 minute stretch where we lost 25-2…so the other 43 minutes it was 100-98. I’m not trying to blame the loss on Terrence Ross. I’m saying it wasn’t exactly the meltdown that some of you are saying it is. It wasn’t the same as the Dallas game to me. That’s all.

I agree it isn't "the same" as Dallas, but it's close enough.

And I can't hyper-focus on a stretch of play in the 2nd quarter of an NBA game and act like more than a half of basketball is meaningless.

[INFORMER]

Everyone said we couldn’t afford an injury to our top 4

Did we? I'm sure some felt that way. I think plenty of others knew this team was Book and Durant. With Ayton's disappearing act, and CP3 fading in every single playoff run we've had with him, I'm not sure why someone would waste time banking on the top 4.

And this ultimately is another entry in the "so what are even doing" category: if CP3 is a necessary element of your bid to win it all, you've essentially got no chance.

[specialsauce]

Don't forget the 3 SPECTACULAR flameouts.

I’d only count 1 flameout

You're nicer than I am. I could give this year a pass, if they had showed some fight in the closeout game, but like the years previously, they did not. Just out with a whimper, 3 years in a row, that is on the coach.

For the record, we didn't go out with a whimper the first year. All games were close.

Lost 4 straight games, close or not, that's a whimper to me.

That’s the definition of flame out

[The Bobster]

How they lost to Milwaukee wasn't an embarassment. How they lost to Dallas and Denver was.

[ShelC]

Monty Williams Detroit presser:

Spoiler: show/hide

[INFORMER]

Thanks, Shel. Tough getting fired while dealing with that family situation. Similar situation with Bud in Milwaukee. Wishing Monty and his wife the best, and hoping he helps Cunningham, Duren, and Ivey and co. to realize their potential.

[Flagrant Fowl]

I'm taking the over on Pistons regular season wins in 2023-24.

[Superbone]

Man, that sucks what Monty went through right after being fired. Talk about a double whammy! Did I read that right that the situation with his wife had improved? I wish him nothing but the best in Detroit. He was exactly what we needed when he came here and took us quickly to the NBA Finals. I will always cherish his time here and appreciate what he brought to the program.

[Superbone]

I'm taking the over on Pistons regular season wins in 2023-24.

Very good bet. I will also.